How Slow Can You Go?

hschnark · #1 01-27-2006, 12:36 PM

How slow can Zip Zaps, Microsizers, Etc. be operated? For instance can they move slow enough to be operated realistically on a model train layout (20 to 30 Scale MPH)?
If so what kind would be the most suitable for re-bodying or modifying to an HO (1/87) scale car or truck?
Can these things back up?
Is the speed variable with the controller?
What is the minimum turning radius?
Thanks,
Hugo

Steve · #2 01-28-2006, 08:29 AM

Scale wise, they are on the upwards end of 1:64. HO trains are a little smallish compared to the ZZ cars. The car look better with "O" scale or the Lionel trains. Speed wise, the SE cars might operate slow enough at the first step of their proportional throttle, though I suggest a mod the might help them go even slower DC MOD .

Hope that helps.

oh yeah, turning radius is good enough to make just about any 90 degree intersection on the map. You'll need the SE cars with their proportional steering to keep it in between the yellow lines though.

oh yeah, and they have reverse too.

hschnark · #3 01-28-2006, 11:37 AM

Thanks Steve,
I’ll head over to the Shack this afternoon. What am I out if it doesn’t work, $30. I can always donate it to a charity if I don’t like it.
I’m not too concerned about the scale. I use a forced perspective on my layout. 1/64 scale near the front and 1/87 (HO scale) near the back. This produces an increased perception of depth.
I also plan to kit bash a truck or bus body onto it if it is slow enough and controllable. Adding another gear set to slow it down is also an option.
Thanks again,
Hugo

rfnagel · #4 01-29-2006, 01:10 AM

If you can find one of the older blue 10,000 RPM "Control" motors (they used to be included in the (long since discontinued) 60-7501 ZipZaps Performance Booster Upgrade Kit), in combination with the blue 12 to 1 "Stock" gears, your ZipZap will crawl along unbelieveably slow. Real speed is 1.367014 MPH and scale speed is 87.48888 MPH (according to my ZipZaps Speed Calculator), but it will go a bit slower than that (due to friction, battery condition, laws of physics, etc...).

Everyone always seems to have a major speed-fetish with these little cars, and allthough I do too <G>, I LOVE my blue motor and gear combo... perfect for extremely small table-top racing (if you can even call it "racing" <LOL>!) -

(real handy when pressed for space like I currently am -> http://www.cmoo.com/~snor/weeds/Weed..._Homestead.htm <LOL>!)

Anyhow, that may be what you're looking for, speed is extremely slow with the afore-mentioned combination, as well as having precise steering and control.

P.S. In an SE it would be even slower (due to the additional weight of the SEs, as well as being able to control the speed via the pistol grip analog throttle).

hschnark · #5 01-29-2006, 01:58 PM

I went to the Shack yesterday and got a ZipZap SE Aston Martin DB5 and two pickup truck shells on sale for $14.95. Neat little buggers BUT it makes 10’ in about 6 seconds which figures out to 99 MPH in HO (1/87) scale. WAY too fast for a train layout.

Even with the 10,000 RPM motor instead of the 21,500 RPM motor that would be somewhere around 46 MPH. It has the 12:1 gear set.

I would like to put a van body on one of the pick ups and decorate it as a vending machine service truck so there would be a reason for it to stop at the five small businesses on my layout but even 46 MPH would be pretty hard to control.

Questions:
Any idea where I could get a 10,000 RPM motor other than haunting eBay?
Any idea how much “DC MOD” could slow it down?
Any other brilliant (or even dumb) ideas?

Thanks,
Hugo

Steve · #6 01-29-2006, 05:34 PM

even at the first notch of proportional speed it's that fast?

rfnagel · #7 01-29-2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hschnark
Any idea where I could get a 10,000 RPM motor other than haunting eBay?

Other than Ebay (or possibly someone selling one here) I don't know of any other place to obtain one.

@All, isn't there a commonly available 10,000 RPM motor for some of the other brands of 1/64 micro RCs (I myself wouldn't know, all I've ever owned/purchased were RS ZipZaps)?

Quote:

Originally posted by hschnark
Any other brilliant (or even dumb) ideas?[/b]

I'm not sure of what the value would need to be (or even if this would work), but possibly a low ohm resister in series with the motor?

Hehe, kinda funny (just the opposite of what most folks are after), a low-speed mod for the ZipZaps <G>! -

Steve · #8 01-29-2006, 06:52 PM

I know guys are taking the steering servo from SE's and putting them in their monster truck rear ends...and they creep. You might be able to put on a ZZ?

hschnark · #9 01-29-2006, 07:39 PM

Thanks again guys.

Steve - In answer to your question, I went back to the basement and tried running the throttle with my right trigger finger with the control set for left. Pull for forward. I still got about 6 seconds for 10’ going as slow as I could. At top speed I am getting about 4 seconds. This is by the Thousand One, Thousand Two method. I’m too clumsy to work a ZipZap and a stop watch too. Perhaps after I play with it for a while I will be able to control it better. Getting OLD and don’t have the finger dexterity I had half a century ago.

Anyway it is too fast for what I want but it sure is a fun little bugger.

I’ll look into the monster truck and resistor ideas. If all else fails I may try putting in another gear reduction set. If I can get it to slow down enough I’m going to put a custom body on it eventually so making it longer won’t hurt anything. Another new project to keep me out of mischief.

Hugo

hschnark · #10 01-29-2006, 07:53 PM

New question;

Will the Red Monster Motor, 14,500 RPM, work in a ZZ SE?

Hugo

hschnark · #11 01-29-2006, 08:04 PM

I went to the MT FAQ section and answered my own Red Motor question - too big.

New, New question;

If the MT’s are really a lot slower than The ZZ SE’s, maybe that is the way for me to go?

Do they have reverse?

Hugo

chilli_mp138 · #12 01-30-2006, 08:32 AM

hschnark--

MTs can be geared to run much slower than ZZ/ZZSEs. And the ground clearance allows running over carpet. MTs do run in reverse.

If you're interested in regearing you might want to look at the tutorials on my site.

chilli
www.gcrossett.com/zipzaps/

hschnark · #13 01-30-2006, 12:12 PM

Chilli,

Thanks for the link. Looks very useful. I think I will run over to the Shack and see if they have any MT’s left on sale. I would really like reverse but a slow speed is a must.

Back is the early days of ZZ’s I contacted the ZipZap folks and suggested they build a slow speed version for the millions of model railroad fans out here but they weren’t interested.

That said, it appears that you have the skills, spare parts supply, experience, Etc. to build a low speed ZZ suitable for model railroad layouts. Perhaps you (or someone else) could develop a tutorial and parts kit and sell it.

Hugo

Steve · #14 01-30-2006, 02:12 PM

I suggest talking to that guy that made the DC MOD. The SE's use that pulse width modulation to pulse power on and off to allow for different speeds, the slower the pulse, the slower the car moves. I'm pretty sure he could come up with a little chip that pulses very slowly.

hschnark · #15 01-30-2006, 04:23 PM

Steve,

Thanks for the reminder. I was having so much fun playing with my new toy that I forgot all about the DC MOD guy.

I also picked up an 8,000 RPM MT with a 24:1 gear and a Booster Kit for the ZZ SE with a 16,000 RPM motor to play with. I haven’t been able to find a 10,000 RPM Blue motor yet.

Hugo