Engine Miles

[240zmania]

I just picked up an old '86 Corolla Hatchback, but it has lots of miles. I've heard of engine swaps, but there aren't very many engines readily available for the AE86 format. So is it possible to Take apart the Whole engine and thoroughly clean it or port and polish to "wash away the miles" or did i get a bad car?

[takumi_drifto]

http://www.flashoptions.com/

U got away with a peice of street racing history.. Just go get a new engine or something.. was it auto or man?... and how much did u get it for? also lets see some pics

[strakka]

AE86!!!! OMG !!! WHERE"D YOU GET IT WHERE"D YOU GET IT!!!! aghhhhh.... yeah im done now.... can you post some pics??.... oh and dude if you got an 86 .... you did not get a bad car....

[240zmania]

My digi cam is in colorado right now(don't ask) but when I get it back i will take pics, but nobody answered my question. So heres a new question. My friend has a MKIII SUpra and he wants to Put a MKIV engine in it, will this be really difficult or sort of simple?

[strakka]

oh opps forgot about the question.... anyways really depends on his skill and the tools he has....better tools + mad skillz = easy job

[240zmania]

Also if anyone finds a wrecked or salvaged S2000 for sale under 10K please tell me. I need the engine, mounts, cluster and tranny.

[bluemax_1]

240zmania here are a couple of things you can do. If you're really looking to drop another engine in, do a search under 4AG. That's Toyota's engine designation for the AE86 engine. there are a couple of 4AG groups specialising in tuning and parts for it. You didn't mention how many miles the car had though, or whether it's running and how well it's running. The 4AG engine is actually a reasonably tough robust unit and if it hasn't been thrashed too badly and been take care of, even 200,000 miles is alright. Playing around with engines will cost quite a bit though.

If you want to check out the engine, the main thing is to see if the block is in good condition. Everything else is replaceable. have the engine pulled out by a good shop cleaned, and then have it hot tanked and magnafluxed. Check for cracks in the block, excessive wear and anything that can't be fixed by a little machining. If the block is OK, you can then choose to rebuild it with new pistons, rods, crank etc. as you desire, and your budget allows. Porting and polishing improves air and fuel flow characteristics of the engine and is considered a performance modification as opposed to smple mechanical restorative/maintenance.

As for your friend. Ask him what he plans to do with the car ultimately. The problem he has is that the MkIII has a 7M-GTE engine. (I used to have an '88 MkIII Supra Turbo). The MkIV has a 2JZ-GTE engine. Of the two, the 2JZ is the better engine in its mod potential. It is reasonably easy, if you have the money, to mod a 2JZ engine in the 600-700 hp region. The 7M-GTE though can be modded to about 450 hp, which was what mine was putting out. More than 450 hp from a 7M-GTE is much more difficult. If 450hp is enough for your friend, and it is for most people unless they want to seriously drag race the car, then tell him to stick with the engine. However, if he does want to make even more hp, the 2JZ can be tuned to produce about 1200hp. (That much will end up costing at least $50,000 most likely more)

If he does, however, want to go that crazy with the power, he's better off buying a MkIV Supra Turbo and going from there. Unfortunately, it isn't a simpe matter of his mechanical skills and what tools he has. The engines are different and have different mounting points in the engine bay. I'm not sure if you can fit the 2JZ engine in the MkIII engine bay and if you could, you would have to mod the engine bay a fair bit to be able to mount the 2JZ engine there. I've never owned a MkIV, but I have friends who do and it is a nice car especially in a straight line. Can be tuned for the track quite well too, but they can't beat my VR-4 in the curves, especially when I start drifting I used to drift with the MkIII, but I sold that car quite a while ago. A good condition MkIV Turbo of course, will set him back at least $30k.

Hope this helps.

[240zmania]

Thanks bule max, yeah i started taking a look at the engine more thougholy and nothing at all seems wrong. SO maybe it isn't that bad at all, and I'll have to tell my friend about the horsepower gains, I think 450 is engough, he just wanted the twin turbos, but I think 450 is plenty. Also because you owned a MKIII supra is it easy to drift in, because it does weigh alot and is pretty long. MY friends and I really want to look into drifting and that is why i got the AE86.

[bluemax_1]

The MkIII Supra is quite heavy and it is a reasonably long car but it will drift quite well. The length of the car increases polar moment of inertia so the car doesn't experience snap oversteer the way some other cars, like the Miata and MR2 sometimes do. Just make sure you tune the suspension properly. Also, if your friend tunes it to produce hp in the 400-450 range, it's a lot of fun to drift. But turbo sizing is critical. Have to make sure that there is minimal lag, because the weight of the car means poor acceleration off boost.

There are also quite a lot of things that can be done to lighten the car substantially. The first and best to lighten the car is definitely the wheels. Get good light forged alloys. The difference in handling, acceleration and braking are remarkable. An aftermarket exhaust will free up the airflow for more power and also reduce weight. (Stock exhaust is a little heavy). Carbon fiber hood will reduce more weight in the critical front area, so will an aluminum radiator. Get a good front strut brace. It can help improve turn in.

As for the AE86, it's a drift classic because it's lightweight, RWD and most importantly, well balanced. Due to the weight, and its F/R balance and also the steering linkage, caster, etc. it has excellent neutral drift characteristics. If you've ever seen Initial D stage 1, yes, it's possible to do what Bunta did with some careful tuning of the handling, i.e. take your hands off the wheel in the middle of a drift and control it with the gas pedal. In Japan, before Initial D came out, most Japanese kids looked down on the AE86 because of the NA engine's limitation of about 160 hp. They considered it a car for wannabe's to 'play' at drifting. In other words, they acknowledged that it handles and drifts quite well but have no respect for its lack of power.

Experienced and professional drivers on the other hand were quite well aware of its excellent handling characteristics and the fact that the car can help you hone your drift skills in part because the engine isn't very powerful. If you don't drift properly, you might very well bog the engine down, which will make your acceleration out of the corner slow as crap. A car with more horsepower though, will allow the driver to pull themselves out of sticky situations with sheer power alone. This is of course a good thing, especially when you start drifting at very high speeds, but it can reduce a persons skill when they rely on it too much instead of perfecting turn in, weight shift, angle and throttle balance. Of course, after Inital D, the AE86 became an instant cult classic.

An AWD high hp car is the ultimate drift car simply because of physics. The AWD allows you better control of force/thrust vectoring, but a high hp AWD car is not the ideal car to learn to drift in. The AE86 is much better for that purpose. Very good handling and neutral in the drift, but it punishes you for mistakes because you don't have the extra power or traction of AWD to pull you out of any big screw ups. And you'll notice the small mistakes easier, because they will have a more noticeable effect on speed, especially exit speed, whereas the added power and traction of a turbo 4wd can be used to compensate for sloppy technique. So my recommendation would be, develop your drifting skills in the AE86, then get a 4wd turbo to leave everyone else in the dust. Hopefully, the morons at Mitsubishi will see the light and eventually bring in the full-blown Evo as opposed to this disguised Eclipse GSX they call the Evo VIII.

[strakka]

LOL and if you really want to go a bit nuts go try and drift a F/F car max! LOL i really want to see that one day.... a FF drifting LOL yes the AE86 is probably the BEST car to learn how to drift b/c of the reasons max has pointed out above, but as soon as your done learning from that thing ..... get and FD3S LOL .... well thats my plan anyways.... but basicly once you've mastered the basics go for a better car...... rite max?? anyways isnt buntas car maxed out or something?? and how can you tell the difference BTW a levin and a sprinter.... b/c the seller will probably know nothing about his/her car UNLESS he/she is a true racer

[bluemax_1]

Actually, funny as it might be, FF cars aren't that difficult to drift. I do drift my VW Golf. The way you control the drift is a bit different, but there is a rally class in the SCCA for FF cars, and the winners are quite often in stock Golfs as a matter of fact

As for the cars, yep, learn with a simple car, then go for something faster

Bunta's car is very well tuned, but mostly for hadnling though. i believe most of his tuning is done on the suspension, 'cuz i don't think the original AE86's engine was tuned for significantly more power. The engine they put in after the original blew up of course is a whole different matter. Limited class racing engine. Quite amazing the mount of power put out by it, especially an engine design as old as that one. These days, it's not such a big deal since the Honda S2000 engine comes pretty close in stock form.

[strakka]

hmm, not to difficult for you to drift a FF? thats cool, i hear you need to use your handbrake and your footbrake, is this true? b/c i hear soo many rumors about drifting that i dont know much about the stuff in the gray area .. hehe

[bluemax_1]

Well, the basic principles of drifting are pretty much the same in the different cars. Learning to weight shift between the four wheels/tires is the key to controlling drift properly and there are many techniques that apply to all cars whether FF, FR or 4WD. Yes, the handbrake is one of the things you can use to increase the rotation of the car in a turn. You don't really need to use the handbrake in FR cars since you have power going to the rear wheels to control traction, and most 4wd cars don't let you use the handbrake to slow the rearwheels only. Usually once you yank the handbrake on a 4wd, the center diff reacts to the change in rotation and slows the front wheels as well. The only exception is the J-spec Evo with the active diffs, those actually disengage the center diff when you pull on the handbrake. (Cool addition on Mitsubishi's part)

As for left-foot braking, this technique is applicable in all types of cars, and is an advanced technique for weight transfer. It's a good technique to learn for any drift enthusiast.

When drifting the Golf though, I only use the handbrake for sharp low-speed corners. For anything faster, just use the foot brake for weight transfer. Because the front wheels have the power in FF cars, you can use the steering to direct the drift by 'pulling' the car round the turn. In the middle of a turn, left-foot braking will accomplish the same thing as pulling on the handbrake, but it does it with a little more finesse and control, if you've trained your left foot for proper sensitivity on the brake pedal that is.

[240zmania]

Yeah, That's what I plan on doing is buying the AE86 and getting good at drifting and then getting an FD3S or an S2000, or Should I drop an S2000 engine in an AE86, hmm I'll think about that one, could be pretty cool actualy!

[strakka]

FD all the way!!! thats what im doing, well only if i have enough money. the 86 is the best car to learn drifting but you need to have twisty roads or a race track that you can drive on though... everything else is kind hard to drift on LOL