aluminum instead of brass???

[BiLLy bOb]

was wondering if a person can use aluminum instead of brass to build a frame for a tttt? ive played around with brass before and never had much luck soldering it. aluminum im pretty good with figure i can get a BIG chunk and just mill it down to what i want. was curious why a body couldnt it instead of brass? is there a reason inparticular? my lhs is 70 miles away so mailorder is how i do most of my *goody getting*. was also curious if anybody had a source for gears here in the states for making gear boxes?
BiLLy bOb

I'm sorry, I don't have an answer to your question. I noticed you started two threads with the exact same thing minus the last sentence of this post. I deleted the other. You are able to edit your posts, please do so in the future if you want to change something.

[BiLLy bOb]

thank you, im slowly learing computers.
BB

[Fred]

Originally Posted by BiLLy bOb

was wondering if a person can use aluminum instead of brass to build a frame for a tttt? ....

BiLLy bOb,

you mention that you are not too successful soldering brass. Solderabilty depends on the specific alloy. I have some brass in my scrap box (salvaged from old clocks) that does not solder too well. Most of today's brass solders well if it machines well. Well, soldering aluminum is quite a different animal...

Alternatively, you could use a solid piece of brass and mill the entire frame from it (as you are suggesting to do with aluminum). Have you tried modern cements? (In my experience, e.g. Loctite 601 works quite well on brass).

Sure, aluminum would work, your frame would probably be lighter; but depending on the specific alloy you may have to use more "beef" than with brass to end up with equivalent strength.

Brass can double as a bearing surface (acceptable friction when paired with a hard, e.g. steel shaft). Aluminum does not have that property.

Let us know how things work out for you,

Fred

(In lieu of a real introduction: active in the micro airplane world, lots of experience with homemade IR r/c, microcontrollers, fairly new to 1:87 cars; I live in Germany)

[BiLLy bOb]

Fred,

Alternatively, you could use a solid piece of brass and mill the entire frame from it (as you are suggesting to do with aluminum).

Thats exactly what i had in mind. Milling down a chunk of aluminum for the frame. I *was* favoring aluminum because almost everything I purchase I have to have mailed to me (closest hobby shop is 130 kilometers for me). Aluminum is much cheaper for me at this time. I have thought about the advantage of brass acting as a bushing and thought that i could install brass where the bushings would be needed.

Have you tried modern cements? (In my experience, e.g. Loctite 601 works quite well on brass).

My big brother does a lot of fiberglass and carbon fiber assembly. The adhesives used with that stuff is simply AMAZING. Thank you, I have not thought about just gluing together a frame. I'm glad you brought up the point about different alloys of brass too. I did not even think about it. I guess i will get some brass the next time i am at the hobby shop and see if i have any better luck with it.
Thank you for bringing up points that I hadn't thought of.
BiLLy bOb

[Fred]

Originally Posted by BiLLy bOb

...I guess i will get some brass the next time i am at the hobby shop and see if i have any better luck with it. ...

Hi BiLLy bOb,

make sure you buy "free machining /cutting brass " (DIN EN 17660 / MS58 or similar). How powerful is your soldering iron? Some folks love acid flux for soldering brass frames; I am quite happy with resin flux. You may want to add (resin) flux if you believe there is not enough in the core of whatever solder you use. Depending on your preference, use liberal pre-tinning.

Remember that brass conducts heat very well. Preheating the frame (e.g. on an electric range or hotplate) works wonders. There is another downside to the superb heat conductivity of brass: Not only does the heat dissappear from the spot you want to solder, but this heat can melt the solder in a nearby finished joint. You may want to cool nearby completed joints with some wet kitchen paper.

I have never tried cement for building an entire frame, although I use cement quite often for other joints (e.g. for attaching a motor -- Stabilit Express is just great for that purpose).

Good luck,

Fred

[BiLLy bOb]

My iron is a 60w stick unit. Not a gun type. My brother has a adjustable watt unit for his electrical work. I might try the glue, between me and my brother we can experiment until I go to the hobby shop again. The fiberglass glue I mentioned is amazingly strong. My brother was making a custom console for a 1972 Buick and dropped some onto a cement building block (approx 7 kilo's). 20 Minutes later he had to move a piece of railroad iron (approximately 70 or so Kilo's) placed it ontop of the cement block and never thought about it. 3 weeks later he needed the RR iron for anvil and went to move it. It is now 3 years later and the cement block is STILL FIRMLY BONDED to the iron. So i might give that a try. Tonite i got into my train collection and got out a few vehicles and grabbed some of my indoor airplane stuff i have. Unfortunately a *hitec hs55* is the smallest servo I currently have. Do you use servos of this size or smaller ones? I tell ya, after looking at what im trying to accomplish, this is a VERY intimidating thing to attempt.
BiLLy bOb

[Fred]

Originally Posted by BiLLy bOb

...Unfortunately a *hitec hs55* is the smallest servo I currently have. Do you use servos of this size or smaller ones? ...

BiLLy bOb,

I am new to this forum and not sure if changing the topic within a thread is acceptable here... The HS55 servo is what I use in a slope soarer; but I have not used any commercial servos in 1:87 models (I am working on DIY stepper motor servos). Most people trim the cases of their servos to make them fit. Have a look at http://freenet-homepage.de/andreasrackel/hobby.htm (under "Modelle 1:87") and http://ig.micromotor.org/LKW/lkw.html (this is the address of a frame under http://ig.micromotor.org -- you can click on the individual models and see a lot of detail) for examples. The pictures will help, even if you do not read German.

Good luck with your "cemented frame" experiment!

Regards,

Fred

[BiLLy bOb]

im not sure on all the exact rules on this forum either fred, ive read some rude scoldings on here for things that i thought nothing of but then again im very new to this forum and ALL of them are different. anyway, thanks for the links, I have both of them and have translated them and probably read them 10 times already. here is a example of how much i have looked over it. i was looking again last nite and showed the wife this truck which was not there last week. if it was i sure did not see it.

the red dodge power wagon under the section of VAN & Lieferwagen.

ive seriously thought about buying the mikromodel book that one of the guys wrote but i assume it is wrote in german. i have no idea if there is a english version available although i thought even for just picture reference it might be worth the investment. have you seen it? what is your opinion?

the cement experiment will have to wait a few more days to get started because my brother is out of town and i do know which adhesive is for which hardner in the garage. he knows what goes with what out there. so i must wait until he gets back into town.
BiLLy bOb

[Fred]

Originally Posted by BiLLy bOb

...ive seriously thought about buying the mikromodel book that one of the guys wrote but i assume it is wrote in german. i have no idea if there is a english version available although i thought even for just picture reference it might be worth the investment. have you seen it? what is your opinion?

BiLLy bOb,

I think both volumes are great. You are right, they are in German. Although both books are well illustrated, you really have to comprehend the details of the descriptions to understand the author's reasoning for making specific choices. I do not know if any of the authors are members of this forum -- I can check with them about the availability of a translation.

Best regards,

Fred

[BiLLy bOb]

fred, sure do appreciate you checking into a translated version of the books. i personally would need a copy of each if a english version is available, might get a couple of copys if some of my other friends are seriously interested. even rough computer translations would be fine for me if its possible.
thanks a million....
BiLLy bOb

[Thorsten]

Hi,

i think it is better to make a more weight frame. So the truck drives more stable on- and offroad.
By using aluminium you have:
- problems to connect the parts
- you are unable to use the frame as eletric negative of the battery
- and it is to leight weight for good offroad driving

so I prefer brass .

If you are build onroad trucks, you can also user the original resign frame. It may the easiest way to build a small truck and it is allmost strong enough.

The book "mikromodelle" and "mikromodelle2" (availible at www.vth.de) are only in german writing availible (sorry my english writing is to terrible for writing an english book)

-,but if you have questions or problems by reading the book I will try to answer.

best regards

Thorsten

www.mikromodell.de

[BiLLy bOb]

Thorsten,

Thanks for the reply. You have made some good points about the brass versus aluminum. Unfortunately as a beginer to TTTT, i did not even realize that the batterys were grounded through the frame.

Even though I have traveled to Germany several times over the years, unfortunately I do not speak or read it. So the books would only be good reference pictures unless i manually typed each german word into a translater on the internet. Is it possible for the book publisher to translate it electronically? Even if it were not *perfect* english I know there are probably several people who might enjoy reading it.

From your points, and the points that Fred has made I believe I just **NEED** to practice soldering brass until I can do it well.
Thanks
Lewis

a.K.a. BiLLy bOb

[kalkurap]

hmm, since the other thread is closed, I will be watching this one
Did you find any good source for small gears yet?

[BiLLy bOb]

i have found a few gears, but have been limited by my finger as to what i can do. went to the toy store and bought some of the pull & go spring action cars. have found 2 that might be usable. also going to go to walmart and buy a headphone cassesette player and tear it apart to see what size gears are in it. I also have destroyed the case on a hitech hs55 servo and those gears are VERY promising plus the motor is promising too. hopefully ill make some progress in the next week or 2.
BiLLy bOb