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  #1  
Old 11-15-2004, 10:40 PM
GiantScale GiantScale is offline
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Which Mini-Z for the serious racer

OK.. I just got back from a hobby shop that races Mini-Z's and Iv got the bug. Im a adult so money is not to much of an issue.

I would like the best Mini-z money can buy. Is a pro version available? Which one handles the best?

Or maybe something else in the same scale?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2004, 11:06 PM
LiLStagg LiLStagg is offline
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MR02!! lol thats what you want, a Woahnelly found at woahnelly.com and a PN so3 motor. and a ball diff. about 220bucks for a fast as hell car. lol
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2004, 11:16 PM
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HammerZ HammerZ is offline
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It all comes down to what your local track allows far as upgrades and what class you run. And look around the shop at the link below. I'd stick with an MR01, if you are wanting to go with a Pro Z chassis. Mainly because the Pro Z is setup to use the MR01 servo case. The Pro Z is also called Pocket Knife.

See more stuff on Mini Z's here.

Last edited by HammerZ; 11-15-2004 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 11-15-2004, 11:43 PM
GiantScale GiantScale is offline
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Thanks Guys.

The club has one class.. Mini-Z

Whats the difference between the 01 & 02?
Guess I need to spend more time looking into this..
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2004, 02:27 AM
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The MR01 has a separate servo case without a servo saver. And is the older design, the Pro Z chassis was designed using that and other 01 parts, steering knuckles and such.

The MR02 is a newer design with lower batteries and a built in steering servo with a servo saver instead of a separate case. And the chassis is a bit wider with a wider front track.

Here is where I confuse things even farther.
The new release that we will see more of next year is called the MR015. It uses most all of the MR02 parts but the main chassis is narrower like the MR01.

Even more confusion.
These are the three different Kyosho releases that I know of. There are some hybred racers floating around that use some stuff from one type on another. That is somewhat limited as to what works on one to another.

These cover the basics on the racers.
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2004, 07:27 AM
LiLStagg LiLStagg is offline
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well i said MR02 because the low center of gravity, the batterys lay down, and this thing can also turn better then teh mr01, and also, the bodys are awsome,hehe
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2004, 08:11 AM
GiantScale GiantScale is offline
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Thanks.

I understand why LiLStagg suggests the 02.

HammerZ said:
"Mainly because the Pro Z is setup to use the MR01 servo case."

Whats the advantage of the servo case?

Mike
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2004, 11:36 PM
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The MR01 servo case is what the Pro Z was designed around, that is the top and bottom plates are held by it to set the frontend. The MR02 "case" is built into the main chassis. I've seen 02's made over into the Pro Z but you need extra parts and do some soldering to make it work. There are threads oner on mini-zracer.com that debate over which is better- the Pro Z or MR02 for racing.
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2004, 12:51 PM
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why not go for the F1 sweet sassy malassy

lower than the 02
bigger tires
looks pretty effin cool

just my.02
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  #10  
Old 11-18-2004, 01:09 PM
GiantScale GiantScale is offline
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Yeah. They do look good. But I dont want to get a stock Z & then do the up grade game.

The pro-z-6 looks very nice. Just wish it was readily available and rtr without radio. Or as a roller.

What electronics (other than Kyosho) would work well in it?
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  #11  
Old 11-18-2004, 04:09 PM
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What are the dimensions of their track, how many turns how tight, and what kind of surface? I’ve built some real monsters that work great on larger tracks with wide curves, but it’s very hard do beat an intelligent MR02 set-up on a track with a lot of tight curves.

This MR-02 is nearly unbeatable on a smaller track, it is not overly flashy but precision and smooth controllable speed is what it’s all about, it can also be quickly and precisely dialed in to suit different driving styles and track conditions.

MR02 chassis in RM configuration, the MM configuration might handle slightly better but I drive better with the RM. This is the Smoke chassis with the gold plated battery connectors I doubt they actually add noticeable performance but the look helps me.
PN Racing Modified Motor Mount, lighter and more rigged than stock, easily adjustable allowing precise pinion/spur gear alignment.

EGR Atomic Z2 Motor, obviously your motor is important but too many people get blinded by power and hype. For the track control and an even power band are just as if not more important than power and speed and you definitely don’t want too much power for the track. The length of the race and your batteries will also have a lot to say about your motor choice. What good is a hot motor if you run out of juice before it’s over. The Z2 is an extremely smooth, efficient high performance motor that delivers just as much power and acceleration at the bottom of your trigger stroke as at the top. It’s not the fastest motor or most powerful motor out there but it just may be the best all-around racing motor that money can buy. It does however require a turbo.

GPM 16 ball adjustable differential, with titanium shaft. The 16 ball differential is smoother than the 8 ball and allows for more precise adjustments.

Suspension : Kyosho adjustable oil damper with carbon fiber T-plates in an assortment of thicknesses for the rear, and titanium king pins with a Kyosho spring set for the front. The suspension is adjusted by changing the front springs and the rear T-plate to suite the track and your driving style. I have no preference for the T-plates and adjustable oil damper but there is no substitute for the Kyosho spring sets.

Stock Kyosho plastic wheels for racing, the aluminum wheels look nice but are strictly for looks, they add weight and allow tire slip. However you do need to inspect the plastic wheels closely for defects and precise alignment with the bearings installed. Just like for a real race car your tires are one of the most important choices you can make you should have/try an assortment hard/soft more/less sloped. I don’t change tires to suite the track I glue the tires on and change wheel sets.

Precision ball bearings, you can get ABEC 5 and even ABEC 7 bearings for your Z, they are worth it as long as the car is strictly an indoor track racer. Use aluminum self locking wheel nuts, the smallest you can find.

This car has 2x3 FET stacks (Internal Turbo). For a 2x2 stack stick with the Vishay 4562’s however at 2x3 the IRF 7389’s slightly higher on-state resistance is less noticeable and their faster switching and greater power dissipation are strong points in their favor. Currently this car is using a hybrid stacks the forward P channel uses the 4562’s while the N channel uses the 7389’s, in reverse it is the other way around. So far I like the set up but only time and more testing will tell. Either way I recommend a 2x3 Internal Turbo but the installation needs to be done by someone with the appropriate skills and equipment to do the job correctly. There are too many hacks out there, one small jolt of static electricity can degrade a Mosfets performance by 30%. Ask them what they use to solder the FETs if the answer is “as soldering iron of course” then you might want to look for someone else. Also take a look at their finished product the solder on the pins should be clean, shiny, and even with no globs of solder and a thin layer of white heat sink compound between each FET.

Additionally if your going to do some serious racing there is no substitute for a good controller, and there is a reason that 99% of the world champions in any almost any RC car class over the last few years won with the Airtronics M8, and it has an AM module as well as a Mini-Z module they both work but the Mini-Z works better with a Kyosho Mini-Z (note for an Iwaver use the AM module). The Futaba 3PK is growing in popularity and it also has an AM module. A less expensive choice is the Futaba 2PL which also works quit well. If your have full size RC cars and a FM radio you prefer it is also possible to get a FM MR02 they are still quit rare in the States but are becoming easier to get.

Batteries: For practice standard 700 mAh cells are your best choice. But for a shorter race high current drain 600 mAh cells are available. Don't be misled by the mAh rating, nothing is free and higher mAh numbers are obtained by sacrificing current delivery and weight. There is also no substitute for a good digital peak charger, but it must have a range that will cover 4 aaa cells.

This this MR02 is sporting a 7.2 volt 600 mAh lithium-ion battery pack that is 10 grams lighter than standard aaa cells, there is a little trick to building it and you need a special charger, but it will pop right in a MR02 without any modifications whatsoever. A 10 gram weight advantage and 7.2 volts is a suprising competative edge especially in a stock car. Putting this pack in the above car is fun but only if you have a big enough track.
Note: The Iwaver 02 should be out shortly and they reportedly will have not only upgraded electronics but a better controller similar to the 2PL. I’d wait and see if they have any bugs that need worked out before getting one but the Iwavers have been showing steady improvement and if it continues they could eventually leave the Kyosho Mini-Z’s far behind in performance as well as price. Please note that I said if it continues since there is no guarantee that it will, we will just have to wait and see.

Last edited by LBRC; 11-18-2004 at 04:43 PM.
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2004, 07:39 PM
GiantScale GiantScale is offline
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WOW

Thanks LBRC.. Lots of good info there.

The track is 30' X 20.. 22' straight away ,which turns right, into 3 tight corners to get back to the straight away. The carpet is not designed for RC. Commercial grade low carpet. I guess I dont need that "Monster" Pro Z 6. Just a well set up MM02. & since Iv never owned a MiniZ (other than 2 stock overlands for family fun) I should prolly get a MM02. Besides,,, A Pro Z 6 RTR is $450

I cant believe all the different options available for the mini z
How this "toy" has evolved is beyond me..

Iv got a Apache lipo charger. So Id like to go with the lipo batts & your setup. Looks like a winner. I dont understand why you say lipos are only good for longer tracks. I would think lighter weight would be good for short tracks with allot of corners. Its just a matter of finding a used MM02 setup close to yours because I dont want to spend tons of money since I just bought a WWS 1/18 with Hacker + lipo's & a BRP V2 for a different oval track. I also need to finish (paint & assemble) a 80 mph gas rigger boat for next summer to replace one a ran on shore. Wifes not to happy/

Whats the correct way to install FET's

Anyone have something I can work with?
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2004, 08:46 PM
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Lithium-ions for your Mini-Z since there isn’t any good way to fit a usable sized lithium poly cells and still keep the balance right. The Apache charger will work great. I didn’t mean that lithium cells can’t be great for racing it’s just that they can seriously overpower your car and there is a limit to the amount o current that they can supply before the PTC (polyfuse) shuts them down, so for serious racing you need to take a different approach when using them that’s all. For example my lithium powered Iwaver GT40 uses the same Z2 motor as the above MR02 but it is literally too fast for the track you are describing, it has been clocked on a full sized indoor track at over 40. And since it only weighs about 167 grams turning is something you have to slow down for, just because the front wheels turn it doesn’t mean that the car has to follow, and pulling the trigger too quickly can also be a definite mistake.

I race with a set of high drain 650 mAh Kan NiMH cells and another equivalent set of high drain Gold Peaks, both these batteries are normally only produced as commercial cells for battery packs and should not be confused with those you buy off the store shelf. However some suppliers special order them with consumer caps so that you can use them in a Mini-Z. If the track surface has enough traction and tight intricate turns that lead into long straight-aways I sometimes use the lithium-ions with a small pinion gear. Most of the time I use them in the above apparently stock MR-02 to give loud mouth my car has the best of everything types a "sleeping" lesson.

Note, the li-ions in the above photo are not just stuck in the MR-02 they are in specially designed packs (2 parallel x 2 series) with clear epoxy end caps to prevent accidental connection to the battery connectors there is also a connecting wire that joins the two packs. I just took care when making the packs to make them resemble standard aaa cells as much as possible. Additionally the cells are expensive x4 and can be easily damaged if discharged below 2.9 volts per cell.

Last edited by LBRC; 11-18-2004 at 08:56 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2004, 03:17 AM
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HammerZ HammerZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Queso
why not go for the F1 sweet sassy malassy

lower than the 02
bigger tires
looks pretty effin cool

just my.02
One of the main reasons is parts.

1. Open wheels in a race environment means broken parts.
2. Some LHS's may not carry the F1 parts.
3. If the shops have F1 stuff it's hit or miss if they have what you need.

These F1's where big before Kyosho released the MR02. With more interest in the MR02's not very many shops keep up with the F1's much anymore. There is a shop in New York that came up with a conversion kit for the F1's to turn it into a stock car. There are a number of threads on that over on MZR, just hit the link and read up on that. In fact the MZR shop has more F1 stuff now than they had, say six months ago. I think alot of that is to support the F1 conversions.

Last edited by HammerZ; 11-19-2004 at 03:27 AM.
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