10-02-2002, 11:26 PM
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Hulk smash!
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,193
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I took out my Multimeter and got interesting results...
First, the reason I pulled out the Multimeter was to find out once and for all if my suspicions had any merit...That the electronics in the ZipZaps sent less juice to the Motor than a Bit.
I found some INTERESTING numbers...
How I tested:
Before testing the cars, I put them on their chargers for one charge cycle (45 seconds). Then using a Digital MultiMeter (DMM)*, I removed the Motor from the chassis and attached the leads from the DMM to the contacts for the Motor.
On the Bit:
With a NiMH battery (1.2v @ 100mAH): Pumps out 1.36v @ 275mA
With the stock NiCad Battery: 1.34v @ 250mA
ZipZaps:
With the stock NiMH battery (1.2v @ 100mAH): pumps out 1.30v @ 77mA & 115mA**
Atomic Zcar:
With a Bit NiCad battery: pumps out 1.33v @ 110mA
Well, looks like my suspicions were right! The ZipZaps (and the Zcar, clone) sends considerably less juice to the Motor vs. a Bit! Definitely something to think about!
Oh, something else worthy of noting (especially for any DIY Chargers out there)...The Bit Charger CRANKS out 1.5volts @ 1.5A (it actually spiked to 2.2A when I first put the leads on, but then quickly dropped to 1.5A where it leveled off) to the car while charging!!!!
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* The DMM has an accuracy rating of +/- 0.3% for the voltage and +/- 0.8% for the current.
** Whether I got a shotty ZipZap or they inherently have faulty electronics...Sometimes I'd get readings in the high 70s, sometimes I'd get readings in the 110-120. With the Bit and Zcar, I got near solid readings, so there's definitely something up with the ZipZap(s).
Last edited by Namuna; 10-03-2002 at 02:25 PM.
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10-03-2002, 12:09 AM
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TinyRC Pro
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 93
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Interesting findings Namuna. Here's a thought, could the ZipZap be sending a pulse modulated signal like a booster? That might explain the varying current readings.
The current is still considerably lower, so the Bit is going to deliver more power (more than twice as much). Nice findings!
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10-03-2002, 12:12 AM
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TinyRC Pro
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 38
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This might be something for all the electronics experts to consider... I'd think that if the batteries are the same in each, it may be possible to change a capacitor somewhere on the board, or multiple capacitors and increase the power on the ZZ's .... any thoughts electronics gurus?
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10-03-2002, 12:25 AM
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BIT PIMP
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,502
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Hey Namuna,
Did you test a booster bit chassis with your little doodad? Or do you not have one to test?
silla
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10-03-2002, 08:36 AM
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Hulk smash!
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,193
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Quote:
Originally posted by payaso
Hey Namuna,
Did you test a booster bit chassis with your little doodad? Or do you not have one to test?
silla
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Nope, cars used for test:
- Bit Char-G White Skyline, 27MHz (NiMH batt)
- Bit Char-G Blue Skyling, 35MHz (NiCad batt)
- ZipZap Yellow Mustang, 49MHz (NiMH batt)
- Atomic Zcar Black, 49MHz (NiCad batt)
I don't have any boosted Bits, at least not yet. I hear conflicting things about the Booster kit...Specifically that it ISN'T really a boost! But rather the 'boost' is normal juice with the standard Bits and that 'non-boost' is less juice than a standard Bit.
I wouldn't mind pokin and probing a Booster with the ole 'Meter' to find out.
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10-03-2002, 09:33 AM
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Microrcfool
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 99
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I figured the zipzaps have a regulated current of power to the motor. Axon found that the voltage was close enough to the same as a bit, but not the current. I'd imagine his idea for an external relay would probably work. I'd be willing to bet if you were to figure where on the zz's board the resistor is you could probably remove it or add a few more in parallel to drop some of that resistance on the current which would make the car speed up.
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"What's a low fool?" lol
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10-03-2002, 10:50 AM
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Kick butt. I didn't think to try measuring current. My ZZ puts out 106 mA to teh motor after a full charge (I'm using 1.25 Volt NiMH AAA batteries in my controller, I don't have any "normal" AAA's. That's and average of 5 different tests that ended up putting out 104-107 mA.
Doh - Edit time
I forgot to make my point. I may resume the idea of trying to set up a "booster board" that connects the battery to the motor directly. I may have it only run direct in forward, for simplicity's sake.
my DMM only reads up to 200 mA. Would you mind testing the current of the 1.2v NiMH batteries at full charge?
Last edited by ax0n; 10-03-2002 at 10:59 AM.
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10-03-2002, 11:23 AM
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Hulk smash!
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,193
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Quote:
...my DMM only reads up to 200 mA. Would you mind testing the current of the 1.2v NiMH batteries at full charge?
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tsk tsk tsk, you're ASSUMING I have the AAA NiMHs to put in the ZZ controller...Lucky for you, I DO have the batteries.
I'll test tonight...I'm quite anxious to see the results on this, as I'd LOVE to use NiMH in my controllers (instead of wasting money on the Alkalines).
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10-03-2002, 12:44 PM
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Microrcfool
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 99
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Quote:
Originally posted by ax0n
I forgot to make my point. I may resume the idea of trying to set up a "booster board" that connects the battery to the motor directly. I may have it only run direct in forward, for simplicity's sake.
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awsome, that's what I wanted to hear. Just make sure you do a small writeup for us (me) to follow. Also, I was wondering since they put the boost option on the controller circuit board I wonder if it's on the zips car board and just isn't used, or is bypassed. This is one reason why I've been trying to dig up data differences on standard and booster boards.
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"What's a low fool?" lol
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10-03-2002, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lowerdfool
Also, I was wondering since they put the boost option on the controller circuit board I wonder if it's on the zips car board and just isn't used, or is bypassed. This is one reason why I've been trying to dig up data differences on standard and booster boards.
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Unfortunately for us, the "decoder" chip inside the car isn't in a nice pin package like the encoder chip in the controller. In my car, the decoder chip is buried under a blastic blob and that means there isn't a good way to find the wire that would be responsible for "boost" on the zip zaps. I'm not sure how it works on the Bits, or on the micro RC cars that are more closely related to the Bits than the ZZ's are. At a casual glance, the Zip Zaps are identical to the bits in almost every way. After some observation though, I'm finding that the zaps are less and less related to the Bits.
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10-03-2002, 08:31 PM
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Moderator - Modifier
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NYC Area
Posts: 198
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Boost function on the ZipZaps...
Just check the chip, and if its a TX2, then it does, as all TX2's to my understanding have the boost pin, its just the PCB that wont have the printed etching to take advantage of it.
Also, i wasnt sure you what you meant by the decoder chip, cuz I am amazingly ignorant with electronics, but if you mean freq then I am pretty sure its the 4 black square looking pins along the top of the PCB board that determine the 4 frequencies available.
Somebody school me please...
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10-03-2002, 08:36 PM
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Moderator - Modifier
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NYC Area
Posts: 198
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current disparity measured by performance
Forgot to mention that Kyle and I both have a 2.4v Zip and timed a standard BitDra-G 20' run. Both cars were setup the same, (3.8's, 12:1 gearing, bit tires, etc..) but Kyles has a Bit board and mine is stock ZZ. His car did the run TWO WHOLE SECONDS faster than mine!
My run was 4.74 and his was only 2.81!
Now that is more of a real world example of the difference in performance that the "current" flowing to the motor makes! Quite considerable.
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10-03-2002, 09:04 PM
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IRON MAN OF BIT RACING
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 312
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hmmmm
what if i put a bit battery in my zip zap would that be wise
i ahve an extra battery soo should i try it?
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MY NEW CUSTOMIZED BIT:
red ae86 with zipzap spoiler
carbon fiber hood
3.8 motor (well, it doesnt want to run now)
qfm springs
back wheels on front and back
8.25:1 gearing
rare earth magnet steering
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10-03-2002, 11:28 PM
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What ever you say Granpa?
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 49
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Anybody tested Clone (Bullet Cars) boards on a ZZ? Sounds like if the board is the issue, buying a few $10 clones and swapping out the boards would be a great investment for those who already own ZZs...just a thought, I am grossly ignorant when it comes to electronic stuff...but sometimes not knowing has its advantages...."Imagination is more important than Knowledge"...A. Einstein...and who am I to argue ;-)
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11-21-2002, 04:22 PM
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Jetdi Knights
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: 808 bebe
Posts: 28
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i was curious, if i dual battery my ZZ eclipse, would that beat a stock tomy bit or a booster bit? i had a spare tomy stock battery from my Supra bit and my ZZ stock batt. could i do a 2cell with that? anywayz i hope someone responds soon b4 i do it... i gotta race my friend b4 he moves away!!!
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