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  #1  
Old 06-07-2009, 03:40 PM
lornecherry lornecherry is offline
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Mini-Z Ozite ...oh so close, but no cigar

I thought I 'd share some of my observations of Mini-Z Ozite now that I've somewhat dismissed it for dNano use. (this is a less fibrous version of Ozite racing carpet that was specially made for me when I sold hand-made tracks back a few years ago.)

The good:

1) The traction is just perfect, with a little bit of 'give' (throttle-induced oversteer) on full-speed cornering...and at 100% throttle ..I can run a 12' x 6' oval. With mild corner banking, this should evolve into a NASCAR-like racing experience. Throttle-on response out of a corner, reminds me of my days in shifter karts.

2) The Kyosho lap timer works perfectly and hides under the carpet.

3) If you upgrade to the ball diff and loosen up the front suspension (polish the king pins, add bearings, lubricate with DRY graphite), the chatter mostly goes away. The stock diff is garbage, the ball diff is much smoother.

4) Rails attach instantly and anywhere on the track with male Velcro.

5) Carpet is very light and deploys/rolls up in a few seconds.

6) Stock tires work fine, although Atomic 25s up front and 20s in the rear is a little tighter.

Now the bad:

1) Any carpet from the bottom half of the 125' roll that came from the Ozite factory, has small wave-like ripples that cannot be stretched out unless I used my very large Mini-Z rails. Carpet from the front of the roll is much better, but still has a ripple or two. At $800 a roll, using 1/2 the roll to make tracks is not very economical. Any surface must lay perfectly flat, and the weight per sq. ft. may need to be increased to overcome that problem.

2) Although this surface is mostly immune to carpet fibers shedding, the bearings did need to be cleaned out after 100 laps or so. The fibers are so thin that they do not impact the bearing like a human hair; still I deem this unacceptable for racers. And it's a Catch 22, if I get rid of all the fibers by rubberizing the track, I'll lose the ability of the Ozite to accept the "Quick Attach" rails without adding Velcro to the racing surface.

3) The surface is so good and so fast, that you really need a big track to let these cars strut their stuff. 12-16 feet of main straight is ideal. Road courses need to be at least 14 -20 feet long and 8-10 feet wide, only a little smaller than a Z track. If you are stuck for space, nothing beats "Good 'ol Boys" style NASCAR racing on a banked oval. For that reason, I also think the Kyosho "plastic" road-course track is simply too small.

So what's next:

There still may be an ideal roll-up surface, but this not an easy task, even given the fact that at one point back in '03 I worked with Ozite's factory chemists to make Ozite better for the Mini-Z scale class.

I built over 400 of the older (both carpet and EVA foam mini-z tracks back in 03-04) and learned a lot about various surfaces. My school racing leagues that will run next year in Toronto need very fast deployment and roll-up convenience, so my quest continues. I will be experimenting with some Regupol later this month and also speaking to a carpet "chemist" to see if we can develop a) a roll-up surface to lay perfectly flat after it is rolled and re-rolled and b) get rid of any fibers. At least, I've got the traction co-efficient near perfect.

I have also developed some interesting mods to the cars and the transmitter that really protect the cars and allow you to dial in the exact throttle travel on-the-fly without having to use the ICS, which is ideal when you want to let an 8 year-old drive and don't want that annoying "training mode" blinking light - Lorne
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2009, 07:54 PM
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thank you very much for the background information. my experience with carpet tracks has been VERY limited. it's one surface i've never had a competitive race one. do you know if any of your old tracks are still in use in the mid east coast?

i wish i had some intelligent ozite questions for you however i'm learning from your post.

please do explain in more detail your mods to cars and transmitters
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:00 PM
schmenzer schmenzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lornecherry View Post
I have also developed some interesting mods to the cars and the transmitter that really protect the cars and allow you to dial in the exact throttle travel on-the-fly without having to use the ICS, which is ideal when you want to let an 8 year-old drive and don't want that annoying "training mode" blinking light - Lorne
Also very interested in the mods. I have young kids running Mini-Zs with ECO motors but have not found an equivalent motor for the dNaNo. If I could electronically limit the performance that would be great!

Greg
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  #4  
Old 06-07-2009, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenzer View Post
If I could electronically limit the performance that would be great!

Greg
You can. If you're using the KT-18, there's a button you can press to enter 'training mode'. Refer to your manual for a more detailed and probably helpful description, but I'm pretty sure it limits the throttle to allow new drivers to get used to the car more easily. If you're using another computer radio, just turn the throttle EPA down some.

Back on topic.

Lornecherry,

The writeup on ozite carpet was interesting and very informative. I've been driving my dNaNo on carpet (not sure whether it's ozite or not though ) and I completely agree with your findings. Cleaning the bearings every couple of cycles is annoying.

I'm also interested in the you did mods, in particular the ones you did to help dial out the chatter. As I've mentioned in other threads, I'm having difficulty getting rid of the chatter and would appreciate your help. Thanks, and keep us posted.
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  #5  
Old 06-07-2009, 11:49 PM
lornecherry lornecherry is offline
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Mods and chatter

Arch, I didn't keep the list of Porta-Trax owners, was very informal cottage business that was more fun than anything, I doubt if there is any 5-year old carpet around anyway. Moreover, I changed the Ozite formulation at least twice, some of it was not very good at the beginning.

Here are some pictures of the throttle mod: It's ever so simple and costs less than a dollar. Works great though. You just dial in the amount of throttle you want. This first attempt was a little messy and you have very little clearance on the battery pack; that's why I installed the "puller" tab at the end of the battery pack, as the pack sticks a bit when you press the release button (planned also, because kids will inadvertently press that button and the penalty for doing so should be power off, not 4 AAA batteries all over the floor!).

I used a brass knurl nut to embedded into the transmitter casing to receive the large plastic screw, which is easy on the fingers (and I don't like metal-to-metal around R/C).

You need a Dremmel tool to cut away the groove for the brass knurl nut and I secured the nut with CA. I also cut away the small protruding plastic piece on the trigger, so that I could still get full throttle if the plastic screw is turned all the way in.



http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4550/picture005l.jpg

Last edited by lornecherry; 06-08-2009 at 12:37 AM.
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  #6  
Old 06-08-2009, 12:11 AM
lornecherry lornecherry is offline
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Getting rid of rear-end axle-hop or "chatter"

J, here's what's worked for me. At this time, I'm purposely only using genuine upgrade Kyosho parts ... (except tires), as I want to be sure that it's not an aftermarket part causing an effect, as the cars are so new.

Differential:
The stock differential is horrible, mine was tight, grindy and inefficient on both cars right out of the box. You thus need to install the Kyosho ball differential and use the two or three ring spacer setting, as per the instructions. Lubricate the differential (there are right and wrong ways to do this, use a very small amount light machine oil or dry graphite ...never grease). Both rear wheels should spin very smoothly with no hint of binding. While you are back there, get rid of the stock bushing and add ball bearings.

Front Suspension:
Next check your front suspension. Out of the box mine was almost non-functional, there was binding and very little travel. Chuck the stock bushings and lubricate the suspension and bearings. There is an article on the Atomicmods site about polishing kingpins; I don't go quite that far, but I do make sure that everything is very smooth up front.

Rear Suspension:
If you've changed to a carbon fiber H plate, I would change back to the stock plastic; you want max flexibility back there. I remember the reason we changed to carbon fiber on the Mini-Z was because the stock plates broke in a day. That is not a problem with the d'Nano, and from what I can see a the only reason to use carbon fiber H plates is for stiffening up the rear; exactly the opposite of what you want to do if you've got chatter (which is equivalent to full scale "axle hop".)

These setup tips will be old-school for those with Mini_Z experience, and I'd be lost on this little car without having setup so many of those cars previously and thus understanding the Kyosho philosophy on quality construction with a few suspect or poorly performing parts. At this price, the d'Nano should come with full bearings and ball differential.

I've tested this setup on both carpet and EVA foam (the smooth side) and it works well. It does take time to settle in and if you take some very sharp corners with full-grip, you may still get some chatter, but it's certainly much more drivable than stock.

Last edited by lornecherry; 06-08-2009 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:54 AM
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Thanks again for the help Lornecherry.

Differential:

I've added ball bearings all around, so I can check this off the list. I've sanded the diff plates smooth with high grit sandpaper (it was HIGH, just can't remember the exact grit rating), which is definitely worth doing, just be sure you use a ultra high grit sandpaper so you don't increase friction. Anyway, I rebuilt my diff and only lubricated it with a little, light bearing oil. Seems to work well. Both rear wheels spins and work freely, but I'm still not happy with the Kyosho diff. I don't think it differentiates very while, but that's for another topic. I'm gonna keep playing with the provided spacers and may try to find other springs that may work.

Front Suspension:

Again I've added bearings all around so we don't have to worry about that. After buying numerous spring sets, I've finally found a set of each hardness that seats properly within itself with compressing and is nice and smooth. I've just double checked and the front suspension seems to be working properly.

Rear Suspension:

The past couple weeks I've been playing with the Atomic h-plate set. Almost all the h-plates in the Atomic set are softer than the Kyosho plates, but like you said, the stock h-plate works the best on the carpet of anything I've found so far.



Again thanks for all the tips and tricks. I look forward to your next writeup. The only thing that I haven't tried that you suggested were the atomic tires. They're on the list for this weekend's trip to the track. Then again it could be the surface under the carpet, which is quite rough, and my malicious driving. :P
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  #8  
Old 06-08-2009, 07:25 AM
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due to my mini-z experience, i've always perferred soft h plates vs. stiff. for mini-z, i actually use custom made lexan h plates that vary in stiffness and are nearly indestructible. they will tweak if left bent but easy enough to flatten out.

stock mini-z h plates are very succesptible to breakage due to force and angle of impacts and amount of exposure of the rear end. i find it very hard to believe the dnano will have the same problems unless you get nailed just right on a rear wheel.

thank you for sharing the throttle limiter mod! i recall this being done to the old kt-5/2's way back in the day as well. the training mode is slow enough for my kids but this mod is very useful to keep in mind
if you could, please start a thread in the parts subforum detailing this modification it will be much easier for people to find it there and it's worthy of sharing!
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:07 AM
lornecherry lornecherry is offline
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arch, if it is easier, feel free to move these two threads (the one on the transmitter and the one on the suspension) to the hop-up or mod category.
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  #10  
Old 06-08-2009, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lornecherry View Post
arch, if it is easier, feel free to move these two threads (the one on the transmitter and the one on the suspension) to the hop-up or mod category.
done, please use this thread for rear end chatter

please use this thread for kt-18 modifications
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