06-09-2010, 06:06 PM
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interesting... well the track at Route 241 works great... and I had no issues wth fibers, dirt, or any other misc. stuff getting into my car,,, and there was a guy drifting a Honda Odyssey van, and has wasn't complaining about residue... dono
still a good option versus some of the other carpets out there... and looking at the Underground videos, the grip levels have the potential to be amazing...
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06-09-2010, 07:35 PM
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Awesome Track!
That would be great Nano track to have at home in the basement, I like it! Thanks for sharing.
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06-12-2010, 08:58 PM
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...any fiberous surface is simply a no-go for the d'NaNo. I did far more testing then Kyosho and I can assure you that you cannot use a running surface with fibers. Not on the track, not on the run-off area, not anywhere around these cars. I've seen cars get fouled from simply running off the track for a few inches and into a barrier run-off made of felt.
Noth'in, nada, nope ...I tested anything from specially-made "Mini-Z Ozite" to micro-fibered trade show carpet (probably very similar to Pytex but I can't be sure). I even tried the very best industrial felts that have the most compacted fibers. And I tried coating the fibers with chemicals to keep them from shedding and tried even a few industrial treatments recommended by an Ozite chemist. Everytime I thought I had the problem solved, the wheels would eventually foul up. As the former Ozite racing carpet distributor for Canada, I had a vested interest in making a carpet track for the D'NaNO work, but there's something about the front-end of the cars or how close they are to the ground that attracts fibers like a flies to pile of %&#!.
Yes, I able to get some cars run about 15 minutes before one wheel fouled, but if you've ever cleaned the front end on these cars, you know what a pain in the asz it is ... because of the low-mass wheels; one single fiber or hair wrapped around the front axel will tweak the car's handling. John's RCP, the Realtracks surface, or the stuff I make my custom tracks from are not fiberous at all and there's a good reason for that... it's far easier to care for these non-fiberous surfaces and the cars; just keep your track static-free and use a dry (graphite) lubricant on the fron end.
I only wish this were not ture, since we had $99 roll-up carpet track ready to go that was perfect in terms of traction and convenience. Moreover, John from RCP and I had a few long discussions to try and get a carpet-type surface to work; I don't give up easily, but I just couldn't sell or use any fiberous track and be honest about it.
Kysoho could easily redesign the front end to keep the fibers out of the axle area or at least make it a 10 second clean-out like it is on the rear wheels. (I consider the current front-end a design flaw with the cars.) Fixing this one problem would do a lot to help this class of cars, not to mention that the Hobbytown tracks would actually be useful ...and think of how many tracks could quickly be setup if clubs could use their exisiting Ozite that they run larger cars on.
If you have a link to Pytex carpet (I think it is made in China) or you know where I can find a sample I will have a serious look at it; (I can't find it in Canada) ...but my gut feeling is if its got fibers, stay far far away.
If I can save a few hobbyists the grief of going through all the carpet/felt/whatever testing I did then this rant has been worth it. Kyosho, please, please fix the front end.
Last edited by lornecherry; 06-12-2010 at 09:13 PM.
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06-13-2010, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arch2b
the texture looks great! from the pictures, it resembles the reprogul tracks in europe, only in carpet, not rubber.
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Hey John.. do you have a photo of the WHOLE track, and not just teaser parts?
and can we have more info?
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06-13-2010, 04:09 PM
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I hate when good discussions die out with no resolution....
anything?
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06-13-2010, 04:17 PM
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TinyRC & Mini-zRacer Fan
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i'd like to know as well. it has some good potential and apparently serves well in european clubs.
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06-13-2010, 04:58 PM
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I've had some interaction with the American distributor (actually new owner) of the Regupol product. They sent me a small sample but were very unprofessional in answering either emails or phone calls after that. I also tested another Canadian-made masticated rubber that is almost the same. Here's what I found:
The Good:
1) Smooth, recycled rubber with outstanding traction, BUT... (read below).
2) Relatively inexpensive.
3) Lies flat on most floors without effort (i.e. doesn't "wrinkle" like most thin racing carpets.) It rolls up!
4) It's recylced material
5) Low maintanence, almost indestructible.
The Bad:
1) The company is not-so-easy to deal with (even when I wanted to order a fair bit of the stuff.) Shipping is very expensive.
2) It's frigg'in heavy (even in 2MM, the thinest formulation, it weighs almost twice as much per sq. ft. as an RCP tiles. This OK for a small track up to 10' x6 ' or so, but not so good on a larger track. That's why we see it in Europe as part of permanent installations.
3) There is far too much traction for the d'NaNo. I know that sounds hard to believe, but axle hop on the d'NaNo is a problem on surfaces with a high friction coefficient. (I used the plasticky auto-scale tires on rubber and that worked OK.) You get traction rolls, even with the highest degree (least grippy) rubber tires.
Rubber-to-rubber is not a good combo unless you are drag racing in a straight line. The problem is further exacerbated by the d'NaNo's very high speed (for its scale) and the so-so performance of a such a small differential.
3) Hard to match seams. Ever try cutting rubber straight to match a seam? It stretches as you cut it. You can do it reasonably well by overlaying it. But according to one distributor of the stuff I tested, it needs to cut with an industrial water jet cutter to get it accurate. This is a problem if you want to match the edges on the rolls, as the max width is 4-foot roll ... d'NaNo's don't like gaps in the seams.
4) You'll need to design a rail system. Since you can't injection mold the edges or anything like that, you'll need a rail system that attaches and then is removable to make different configurations.
Bottom Line:
It's great for larger Mini-Z's in a permanent track location ...I can see that. But it would take a fair bit of development to make it work for the d'NaNo, not to mention that shipping costs are high due to the weight.
That said, I may get some of the lowest friction coefficient I can find later this summer to do some more testing. Maybe I can solve some of the problems. - Lorne
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06-13-2010, 06:03 PM
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TinyRC & Mini-zRacer Fan
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as usual, your research and feedback is invaluable
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06-17-2010, 02:47 PM
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Last edited by akura2; 07-30-2010 at 06:30 PM.
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06-17-2010, 04:11 PM
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I truly appreciate your diligence and that you have perhaps stumbled upon something with promise.
The cork surface is similar to a cork-rubber surfaced also manufactured by the Regupol people. I rejected it because it looked really, really uggggly and was quite expensive per sq yd. You could paint it, but that would ruin the traction or at the very least, be impractical.
The other stuff (Cerazorb) does look interesting. It's a little on the heavy side, but not nearly so heavy as 3mm rubber. And from my testing of rubber, 3mm is the ideal thickness (2mm holds the contour of the surface underneath too much, i.e. tile joints and thus lies uneven, 4mm is too heavy)
There are three criteria it must pass to be better then what I'm using now (said smuggly after searching a year for the best surface
1) It must deploy flat when continually unrolled/rerolled/unrolled (some rubber does, but lighter/intermixed stuff tends not to). This is a biggie for a convenient, roll-up portable track.
2) It must not have too much traction so as to cause traction rolling with the cars or excessive rear-end shudder (without a fancy, scmancy damper). A stock d'NaNo must be able to run on it well without excessive tunning, with the exception of the correct tire matching.
3) It must be reasonably easy to cut or shape with hand tools. (it's difficult to make a true, straight cut on 3mm rubber)
It is already the right color, thickness and width (although 6ft wide would be better) —a good starting point a worth testing. The lighter weight (when comapred to rubber) also suggests that it might be easier to work with.
I'm going to contact the manufacturer and see if I can get some sent up here. Ya' never know, it just might be good. Now if you can only attract another 5,000 people to the d'Nano class, I might be able to explain to the company President (my wife) that there really is a market for these tracks ...
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06-17-2010, 04:13 PM
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Oh ****z, I just realized I totally hijacked John's RCP thread ...Arch, perhaps you could move these last few posts under the Regupol thread or somewhere else.
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06-17-2010, 08:50 PM
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TinyRC & Mini-zRacer Fan
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done
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06-18-2010, 01:06 PM
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Too sticky maybe?.... LOL
40° fronts and 10° rears
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06-18-2010, 02:36 PM
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I spoke with the rep for Cerazorb today; they no longer make a roll-up product, but the new sheet form underlay sounded quite interesting (non-curl, light, reasonably priced). It's a polypropolyne mix (which is similar to the Porta-Trax material I'm using now), so it just might work well.
I've ordered some and it will come in about 20 days ...I'll post once I test it.
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07-30-2010, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lornecherry
I've ordered some and it will come in about 20 days ...I'll post once I test it.
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Any info?
BTW... found some other stuff too.. it helps that we're an interior design firm.. we get to see all this cool stuff..
Atmosphere Recycled Rubber Flooring... it comes in tiles, rolls, and puzzle pieces (interlocks)
http://www.tomkt.com/installation/at...tall_int.html#
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