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  #1  
Old 06-14-2008, 05:28 AM
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dNaNo Lap Timer



http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/topics/inf.../20080423.html

Rough translation form Kyosho website:

You can count the dNaNo lap time's with the home version now under development.

Prices start at 40,000 yen, our goal is for an autumn 2008 release.

Check this website for periodic updates.

Kudasai expectations. (Meaning; Thank You, looking forward to shairing more.)

Last edited by LBRC; 06-15-2008 at 01:40 AM.
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2008, 01:49 AM
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Woops didn’t finish before posting, added the translation above but then realized that if any of the 13 people who looked at it where interested they would have missed it. So sorry for the double post.

I suppose 40,000 yen (approx. $370 USD) isn’t too bad, about on par with some of the infrared timing systems like the GyroZ and Robitronics, and since every car comes with it’s own transponder…
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  #3  
Old 06-16-2008, 12:37 PM
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Cool, but I'm not sure I'd want to pay that much just for keeping tab's on my lap times. Surely there must be a cheaper alternative? That 370 dollar price tag is another car for me!
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  #4  
Old 06-16-2008, 04:07 PM
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Unfortunately that’s pretty much low end for an RC timing system although it is MFSR so we can expect sale prices to be a bit lower with a MAP somewhere around $325 or so would be my guess.

Expmples:
GiroZ $399.99 with bridge and $299.99 without, (when you can find one in stock that is).
Robitronic Lap Timer $359.99

But for a single car, sure you can build your own laser lap timer for under $30, using free slot car timing software, it would have to sit low to the track for the dNaNo is all.

Regardless of the type a reliable timing system takes the hobby to a whole new level, in my opinion it’s an absolute must have. Lap time reality checks can be real eye openers, sometimes I will swear that a car I’ve modified is faster until I time it and find out that back in the real world on the track it is now actually slower. Not to mention basic driving lessons; for example with the stock motor and battery the dNaNo can make it around my 2xWL track at WOT and you might think that constant full throttle would hands down give you the fastest lap times but “reality check” slowing for a better line and less skidding on the tight corners is not just a little faster but a whole lot faster especially when added up over 50 laps.

For me it will all depend on how good the software is and availability of low cost RFID tags for my Mini-Z’s and other cars. One big mistake Kyosho could and probably will make is to get greedy and proprietorize the RFID tags and reader. Buy giving the tags a hidden (known only to Kyosho ID code) and making their system work only with RFID tags that have that code written on them they can make it so that you have to buy tags from them to work with their system. At first this might sound like a good financial decision on their part, but “RALITY CHECK” that type of sales strategy has always backfired, time to decide whether you want to sell cars for the long run or a few timing system tags, it’s just the type of mistake that could actually sink dNaNo sales. Simple really, a timing system that works with any industry standard RFID tag will sell more timing systems and cars, think of a Mini-Z race where you could only use Kyosho parts, yea that would go over like a lead balloon. Woops the Kyosho Cup, might have worked in Japan but not here in the states, I know of shops that still won’t carry Mini-Z’s because of it.

While I’m rambling on, if I where selling a high end 1/43 scale RC car I would try to sell, push, or even give away in some instances, as many tracks and timing systems as I could, fast! Question, if you had a track and timing system how many cars would you, your family, and friends want? Just one, not likely. A good product combined with a track and timing system encourages customers to stay interested, without them as a group they tend to get distracted by the next toy that comes along.

Last edited by LBRC; 06-16-2008 at 11:45 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-16-2008, 11:33 PM
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I agree completely on the need for lap counting aide to figure out what is really fast or not.

On the other part, I'm pretty sure you mean "proprietary". Last I checked it worked wonders for Microsoft and Sony As for the r/c industry and proprietary systems, how about Futaba, Airtronics, Spektrum, KO Propo, JR, and Hitec all with separate 2.4GHz proprietary systems? Still not convinced? Check AMB and their stranglehold on proprietary lap counting systems throughout the full range of r/c racing, to motorcycles, karting, all the way up to F1. Proprietary is a way of life for businesses that want to hit more sales points to each customer; just sucks for the consumer. Not everything can be open source

Personally for <$400 I will get one of these systems if I can get others with similar cars to race together. Heck an AMB system costs like $3000 and $110 for each personal transponder and that doesn't include software at $400+. This thing looks like a bargain to me.

Now as for what will kill dNano is the exorbitant pricing. Few of us would be crazy enough to pay top dollar for a car that is extremely tiny and very difficult for most humans to work on. Man, the $21 for the aluminum front parts and another $20 for the aluminum hubs and they are all specific for each body!! Jeez, even $32 for a plastic "fitting kit" that should come with any of the $42 Autoscale bodies? This is what will kill this brand before it ever gets wide acceptance. Makes me scratch my head if the general Japanese hobby public even has this kind of expendable cash let alone kids in the US.

All that said, it is very cool... if you've got the extra coin.
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  #6  
Old 06-17-2008, 03:18 AM
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Ah yes a spelling error, I meant proprietorize (to make proprietary) hope I spelled it correctly this time.

Thing is that Airtronics and AMB are selling just their individual products and not using a timing system to promote car sales.

Besides there are several transponders as well as lap counting programs that that will work with the AMB timing system as well as Spektrum modules and such for Airtronics radios. If AMB where selling an RFID system with tags you have to buy from them and no one else would make more sense, although I’d still advise against it since one of the primary benefits of an RFID system is that the industry standard tags are plentiful and inexpensive to the point of being disposable, the laundry puts them in my suit pockets to keep track of them during the cleaning process, I couldn’t find out exactly what they where paying but if I want a permanent button like plastic coated tag with my name and phone number programmed into it the price is a whooping fifty cents.

I actually don’t have a problem with initial high prices from the manufacturer for hop-ups it’s a sound marketing strategy, Kyosho’s high prices are an enticement for aftermarket companies like RC Atomic, 3Racign and others to make and sell them at a lower price which in turn promotes car sales.

The Autoscale body price does seem a bit high considering that it doesn’t come with the fitting parts kit but then we are only seeing the initial MFSR price and at that an inflated one since they are currently only being sold retail through the Kyosho stores, once released to distributors and retailers with an as yet unknown and likely undetermined MAP we may be pleasantly surprised, if not quite as pleasant as some may wish. Problem is that they are selling and quite well even the outrageous over the “over the counter purchase-ship-n-resell” prices like those on eBay and at dNaNoshop.com are apparently not keeping people from buying them.

I’m not exactly sure why anyone would want an aluminum hub, aluminum wheels sure but hubs
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  #7  
Old 06-17-2008, 11:11 AM
Marcro Marcro is offline
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I’m not exactly sure why anyone would want an aluminum hub, aluminum wheels sure but hubs[/quote]

I've got the aluminum hub's on my Dnano. They look fantastic and well machined. Plus, they are certainly stronger than the plastic version's. If you have just aluminum wheel's on plastic hub's, and you hit the car hard on something, wouldn't the plastic hub's break? Anyway, I like'em.
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2008, 11:18 AM
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Yes, Kyosho did make that mistake of making the Dnano tag's work ONLY with their own system, especailly when it's not even out yet. They should have made the Dnano tag's universal, then anybody could use it right away. I tried to register my Dnano at our local club's Core system and it didn't even know it was there, a bumber really as it would've been interested to see just how good the Dnano is on track by it's time's.
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2008, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcro View Post
If you have just aluminum wheel's on plastic hub's, and you hit the car hard on something, wouldn't the plastic hub's break?
We’ve been slamming our dNaNo’s around pretty hard with modified motors and all with out noticing any weakness in the plastic hubs. If anything since the axle is also plastic the plastic hub should be more forgiving with a little give against the screw and plastic axle instead of the rigid aluminum.

Quote:
Anyway, I like’em.
Stand corrected, just plain liking them is a valid reason in my book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcro View Post
I tried to register my Dnano at our local club's Core system and it didn't even know it was there,...
In this case it’s the Core software that’s requiring the unique Core ID number that has not been written on the dNaNo’s RFID tag.
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  #10  
Old 06-17-2008, 07:46 PM
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tim already explained the new system will read old tags but not vs. versa, that is old news.

the price sounds spot on if you ask me. it's actually chearer than the initial core release. since it reads old tags, anyone who has/had a core system can continue to use thier old tags to run all thier other cars.

my question is, how long is the sensor? in terms of core tiles... 50cm. will there be choices? many people would love to run 3 wide straight with the sensor.
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  #11  
Old 06-17-2008, 10:02 PM
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Was wondering about the antenna and width from the Kyosho videos with RCP tracks I assumed that it’s exactly the width of a 50cm RCP. But then after staring at the photo awhile I realized that the ribbon cable might not be the antenna instead it could operate like a traditional store entrance RFID system with antennas (TX/RX) in each of the boxes sitting on opposite sides of the track to form a gate which would explain the reason for the two boxes. If so that would be great and could possibly then have a 3 tile width cable option.

Last edited by LBRC; 06-17-2008 at 10:05 PM.
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