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  #181  
Old 04-16-2003, 10:21 AM
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I usually use a 6AA charger. I think 8 would do more damage than good.
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  #182  
Old 04-16-2003, 10:35 AM
JackD JackD is offline
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Thanks Chelboed,

I think you're right about the 8 batts. Do you know where can I get a 6 AA batt holder to make a charger ? My local RS doesn't sell them.

The chargers for my EPOCH and DGMASTER 1/43 cars have six batts, but I'd rather make one from scratch than butcher a perfectly good charger.

JD
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  #183  
Old 04-16-2003, 11:12 AM
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Ya know, what I did was use a 4AA and a 2AA holder and wired them in series just like you wire the car. I put a switch on there so I can run either 4AA's or 6AA's so I can charge my 2cell car or my 3cell car apropriately from the same dock.
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  #184  
Old 04-16-2003, 11:55 AM
JackD JackD is offline
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Never thought about wiring holders in series. That's pretty slick. I will give that a try and see what happens. I happen to have a four and a two batt holder in the house. Hopefully I won't burn or blow anymore of my Bits up.

JD
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  #185  
Old 04-19-2003, 11:49 AM
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Zephyranthes Zephyranthes is offline
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do they sell 6 battery holders at Radioshack?

Is this mod really copyrighted lol?
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  #186  
Old 04-19-2003, 11:21 PM
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chelboed chelboed is offline
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I didn't see any on their site.
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  #187  
Old 04-22-2003, 10:26 AM
actofgod actofgod is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zephyranthes
Is this mod really copyrighted lol?
No.. I'm just having fun.

BTW I still recommend using a AC-DC adapter to charge your Layman or any other multi cell mod. You can get a more reliable prediction of what the charge current will be, since the chargers are rated in mA.

Adding more AA batteries to your charger will not increase the runtime of your car, it will only charge it faster. However, this is really hard on those tiny cells; it'd be better to charge at a lower rate for a longer time. Then you could get closer to "topping off" the cells without charging them too long and blowing them up. It's like approaching a stop sign at 100mph vs 20mph.. the slower you go, the easier it is to stop right on the line without going over. Using 6 or 8 AA's is way too much voltage, IMHO. I have an adjustable 300mA charger, and I set it to 4.5v to charge a tri-cell car and 3.0v to charge a dual-cell car.

Oh, and does anyone have a peak charger and a few of these button cells? I'd love to see how long a tri-cell would run when fully charged.
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  #188  
Old 05-14-2003, 07:49 PM
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MadScott MadScott is offline
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Funny you ask that question actofgod. I'm currently trying to run a triple cell layman. I have a Duratrax Piranha digital peak charger and a stand alone charger of my own making. The peak charger and platform work wonderfully, I am able to achieve 30 minutes runtime with my stock 100mah zz battery. I recently purchased the button cells from allelectronics and put together a triple cell battery wrapped in heat shrink wrap. I removed my stock battery in my zz and replaced it with the button cells.

Here is where the trouble starts. When I place the car on the charging platform to charge, the charger starts the charging process but within a few seconds, the car starts to smoke and the motor starts to run. I believe I've even seen part of the pcb glow. I'm sure the charger and platform both work properly. I have the settings on the charger at 50mah and 3.2v to be conservative. I've looked for loose connections and can't seem to find any. If anyone has any ideas whatsoever, let me know. I really want to find out what a peak charger and the layman's triple cell can do.
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  #189  
Old 05-14-2003, 09:05 PM
Spongebob Spongebob is offline
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maybe you should tone down the voltage and amps a little more. that's wierd!
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  #190  
Old 05-15-2003, 03:36 AM
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btlmr btlmr is offline
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Try charging the battery direct, not in the car.
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  #191  
Old 05-15-2003, 06:33 AM
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I had the same problem, but with a standard internal dual battery Zip Zap. When I charged it, the motor would start running, and the voltage reading on the Piranha would go sky high. Something was shorting out in the car. I took the bateries out, redid my electrical tape dual cell pack, and put them back in. No more problems.
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  #192  
Old 05-15-2003, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by butler
Try charging the battery direct, not in the car.

My only worry there is that the batts could possibly explode. I wonder if removing the motor while charging would help?
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  #193  
Old 05-15-2003, 04:57 PM
actofgod actofgod is offline
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Hmmm, interesting problem! Don't know if I can help any, but here goes.

When you're using a non-standard charger, it's harder to troubleshoot since no one knows what kinds of weird things you've wired up

You say that you've used this custom charger on the stock battery -- but have you tried it on the same car with the stock battery after you started having this problem?

If the problem goes away when you go back to the stock battery, it's probably not any loose connections inside the bit, but you should double-check to be sure. A tiny fleck of metal or a hair of solder from a custom connection could be causing a problem when the higher voltage is applied to charge the additional cells that may not appear when charging at normal voltage.

Eliminating that, double check your polarities. I'm sure you have all the batteries facing the same way in the shrink-wrap pack, but you may have reversed the pack during installation. The narrow end is positive. I'd say double check your charger pad polarity, or test with another car, but you've already done that.

If you've shrink wrapped it, you've eliminated one common source of problems -- the button cells making contact with the PCB since they are slightly taller than the stock batt. Make sure your shrink wrapping is intact. If you find any tiny openings use clear tape to insulate it.

The motor running while charging and something glowing on the PCB both seem to indicate that there's too much voltage, either because the charger is putting out too much, or because of some kind of short. If possible, try testing with a different charging setup for the car that's having problems. I use an AC-to-DC adapter, 3.0v or 4.5v, and no more than 500mA absolute max for these tiny cells.

It seems interesting that someone else has had the same problem with that type of peak charger with a different battery setup. Your peak charger may be built for larger cells and may be putting out too much current at that voltage also. The ideal maximum charge rate for these cells is 40mA for one hour, but since no one wants to wait that long I've suggested no more than 500mA for 5 minutes or so. Multi-cell AA packs put out ~1000mA, depending on the types of batteries used. There's no telling what your current the peak charger is trying to put into these things -- it probably starts out charging at a higher rate then drops off towards the end to top off the cell. You say you've set it at 50mAh? Do you really mean you've set the desired capacity to 50mAh, or did you mean that you set the charging current to 50mA? A charging current of 50mA should be fine, but if you're setting some desired capacity in mAh, there's no way to know how fast it's trying to fill up that capacity, and it's probably based on the tolerances of larger cells. I'd need more info on how your particular charger works, since I don't have a peak-charger myself.

Removing the motor would fix the symptoms but not the problem. It's probably better to leave it in, so that you know when something's wrong. Otherwise, your only clue may be a loud pop or a sudden puff of smoke.

I would definitely try charging the batteries outside the car first. If they do explode, chances are they would have done the same thing in the car but would have caused more damage. If they overheat quickly outside of the car, your charger will likely not ever charge the batteries correctly, for whatever reason. If it charges them fine outside the car (not excessively warm, batteries hold charge well) but has problems again when putting it back into the car, at least you will know that it is not a problem between the charger and batteries but is likely a short.

Good luck.. post more when you've checked it out.
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  #194  
Old 05-16-2003, 01:37 PM
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MadScott MadScott is offline
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I greatly appreciate the input actofgod. My stand alone charger is very basic. I used one of the small RS project boxes as the base, 2 2/56 screws as the prongs that the car sits on and very simply connected a set of hobby charging leads to those screws, inside of the project box.

I have actually put the car on the charger with the pcb opened up and laying to the side so I've pretty much eliminated any shorting there. The button cells are placed in series properly, I don't know if you have purchased any recently but the narrow end now comes marked "+".

What seems to make the most sense to me is that there may be an issue of the charger being too much for the batteries' capacity. The 50mah setting that I was describing is the charge input capacity that I would wish to achieve. The charger could vary well be shooting to much through the batteries.

I will try some charging without the batteries in the car and see if that works. Any other thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. If nothing else, my charging platform also hooks up to a travel charger if you will which basically is a 4AA battery holder with hobby leads on it. Perhaps I can charge my triple cell with that. Thanks everyone for all help.
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  #195  
Old 05-16-2003, 02:08 PM
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chelboed chelboed is offline
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I used to charge my button cells with 6-7.5 volts at 800mA. I think your problem lies elsewhere. Mine never spontaneously turned on like a S. King book.
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