has anyone tried...?

[penguin]

Hi,

I was just wondering if anyone has taken a ZZ SE and turned it into a MT or a tank or a sort( MT motors in SE do not count)? Because i just bought SE and want to monsterize it. It might be difficult bacause ZZ SE is so much fun as it is.

Thanks

There are threads which discuss this subject. It can be done, but the problem is that they SE's even at full throttle have about a 56% duty cycle (correct me if I'm wrong), so the current to the motor is going to be limited. It also has a voltage regulator to keep you from stepping up the voltage to compensate. It also takes a bit of work to get the steering servo hooked up.

I pondered this for quite a while but never gave it a shot. People have had more success with iwaver boards if you can find them anywhere.

[penguin]

Yeah but the current problem can be fixed with the ZipZap SE Duty Cycle Mod. Its easier said than done however. I have no clue on where to even begin to search for the parts required for this mod or MOSFET Mod .The servo i am sure, can be fairly easily done (depends what you are going for). Ill give it a shot with out doing the mods.

I dont understand one thing though, if the motor can be geared well enough for good torque with the original current provided, then why should the modification not work well. Will the provided current be way less than needed for the geared motor to take on the load? I am a bit confused.


Does anyone have any other suggestions or anything at all, please post.
I could not find the posts about this topic but ill search harder thanks Jazz32.

[Namuna]

I'm currently gathering the parts and tools in prep of doing a ZZ MT upgrade myself. But I'm going the route of the iWaver PCB.

I'll have to check, but I believe the person who used a ZZSE pcb was a guy going by "microsash" and he posted his upgrade in a German forum.

Supposedly you can get by the SE board limitations with that Duty Cycle Mod, but that seems like a lot of extra work (to me anyway). I'm hoping for good results with my iWaver upgrade.

Consider this, the ZZMT has a 100% duty cycle opposed to the 56% of the SE. That ratio is going to be your torque ratio.

I have tried to figure out the duty cycle mod, but I have no idea what's going on there. I wish I had an oscilliscope. I keep thinking there has to be a better way.

Namuna, where did you get your iwaver board from, and how much was it? Does that mean you had to get a remote for it too?

[penguin]

and what is iwaver and what does it do?

[Namuna]

iWaver board from Toyeast ($18.90 each):
http://www.toyeast.com/v3/pdtdetail.asp?pdt_id=AIW209

For the remote I plan on using one of my Perfex Tx'es (I've got 3 from my Mini-Zs).

I also picked up a 6 piece set of Xmods Crystals ($16):
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search

penguin,
iWavers are knock-offs of the 1/24th scale Mini-Z brand.
http://www.iwaver.com/

[penguin]

But what if I add more current to the motor with 2 parallel batteries, will there be a need for the mods or will the PCB stil limit the cycle? Also, what do you think about removing the volatage regulator from the PCB? Maybe the mosfet mod will not be necessary because some of the resistance that the transistors have(mosfet mod), the voltage regulator probably does too. I found a thread on this topic but the people discussing it are not very knowledgeable.

thanks

See Azimov, this is what i was afraid of.

Adding parallel batteries will do nothing to your current. It will only give you longer run times. It will be the same current as 1 battery. 10 batteries in parallel will not give you any more current than 1 battery will.

FETs will undoubtedly be better than the stock transistors. Also, to my knowledge, I haven't seen anyone bypass or remove the voltage regulator. I'm pretty sure people don't know where it's being done.

[penguin]

I apologize for the wrong wording of my post. I know about the parallel and the current theory because you and Azimov explained it to me. I was not thinking when I was typing. I mean to say what if I add more current to the circuit and will it make my motor more efficient or at least efficient enough for it to be geared.

Sorry ones again and thanks

People have done it without any mods and it runs ok, it won't be very fast, or have much torque to crawl, but it will be proportional.

The only way to get more current would be to increase the voltage (which you can't without an off board turbo), do the DC duty cycle mod, or upgrade the FETs.

FETs would be very difficult to solder, and a little spendy. The DC mod is too much imo. I'd say you're better off with the iwaver board, which would give you a foundation to do much more with your truck.

[penguin]

I think Ill take my chances and try to remove the voltage regulator from the PCB if its possible. Ill have to do some research first to see if I will proceed with this mod or not. Then Ill add more current and see what happens. As for the Iwaver board, I have a simple rhyming philosophy by which I do my mods: “If the mod costs me more than the thing I am modifying, then its not satisfying”. I guess if you are into BEAM robotics, you would understand. In the mist of all of my questions, I want to stop right now and just tell you how thankful I am that you guys are helping me out. I am definitely not giving up with this project and will not stop until it works with out all of the extra expenses.

Thanks again

[penguin]

Never mind, I give up!

[Azimov]

See Azimov, this is what i was afraid of.

Hey! Don't blame me for this misconception. I let you win that little debate in another thread because nit picky arguing in these sterile forums is very unproductive.
People make a very common layman's mistake of lumping voltage and current into one thing they think of as power. They don't understand the universe of the electron but they are very interested in the effects of the mods. My approach was to simplify the explination so they can proceed with their modding ideas. I already stated I won't do that anymore. You're approach is to transcript theory and text from a manual. That doesn't work either cause the interest isn't in the electronics theory or our knowledge of it, it's about getting the mod done and getting it right so we can all gawk at the cool pictures. Accuracy is important, but brevity is divine.
Now, If we are past the point of who's well read and who ain't, I would suggest a transister on a seperate board that would switch power from another battery supply directly to the motor. A mini relay so to speak. I've seen this done before and it works, but I wonder why you need it.
Speed I mean. Why do you need it in a 4 wheel drive, balloon tired, super high center of gravity, monster truck. These things are made to be geared down, slower and torquer. In this sense, the SE boards would work fine in conjunction with higher grade motors. Yes, you can do it with super efficient motors. But, it's silly to buy them as they are very expensive. The solution is to find them in scrapped electronics. The ejector motor on a Playstation1 is a prime example. Gearing gets you where you need to be and the lower duty cycle means you can crawl the obstacle course longer.

Never mind, I give up!

Nah, don't do that. Look at it some more and research others solutions and ask questions.

I guess if you are into BEAM robotics, you would understand.

I understand very well, but consider this. When Mark Tilden created Walkman, his famous walker, he preached the precepts of BEAM as creating very capable robots from salvagable parts. Therefore making cheap, robust robotics available to anyone. But, what he doesn't mention (though it's not like it's a secret) the Walkman motors he used cost 600.00 apiece and the thing has 4 of em. See, he's talkin techno scrap walkman motors fished outta dumpsters savin the world in so many ways, but he's building his marvelous machines on a government research budget. Well, he was. Now he makes toys at Hasbro. Which is what some have said he made all along. Point is, simplicity and cost are primary concerns in any project. But, to get something amazing, sometimes, you have to pay the cost.
EDIT: Oh, and just to destroy my stated stance on brevity even more, I just remembered a related tidbit of news. If I may be so bold as to toot my own horn a bit, I just found out that one of my BEAM robots has turned up in an article in Make magazine on newstands this month. No biggie I know, but I couldn't help feeling like Steve Martin in the movie "The Jerk" when he got a copy of the new phone book.

[Namuna]

Accuracy is important, but brevity is divine.

Those are words to live by!

I just found out that one of my BEAM robots has turned up in an article in Make magazine on newstands this month. No biggie I know, but I couldn't help feeling like Steve Martin in the movie "The Jerk" when he got a copy of the new phone book

No biggie? Are you kidding, that is AWESOME!!! I LOVE Make Mag, I've got the Make Blog and Instructables Blog (amongst other DIY type) RSS feeds and I've picked up every Make mag (in PDF format) so far!

Congrats Az!!! What page is your article on so I can look for it?

Here's a Wiki about BEAM Robotics for folks (like me) who aren't familiar with it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BEAM_robotics