Here's my first stock DTM ..I love it!
 

I finally got my much needed parts in the mail the other day.
My DTM STOCK version is done...
I have a Novak spy esc,
Futaba standard rx
130 motor (for now)
and a Hitec 55 micro servo
600 mah 6 cell nimh
It all works so well. And honestly it is pretty fast stock.

I still have a ton of parts to install in it to make it FAST.
Mamba 25 esc and brushless system + 180 modded motor
14 t pinion...and 46 t spur gear.
4 silver aluminum rims
and a 1150 mah 6 cell nimh.

With this setup....It'll be sweet and maybe uncontrolablly fast.
Most of the upgraded parts I have already, now I just need to install them
I still have to paint my toyota supra GT body...but the hard part is done.

One more thing...why are these DTM thread not more lively....is it because not many people know about it?? Its a discontinued uninteresting model??? Both??

Or is their another place where the DTMer's hang out to chat.

Personally, I don't think many people have these dtm sp's or x4's.

I'm still here and planning to stay :P Gonna try to do some more custom work on mine, but tough since we're completing a move into a new apt. (same city). I'm still having traction roll issues at the track, but I did get my lap time down a bit more.

Be very careful if you dremel out space for a motor on the motor pod portion of the chassis, as I just broke mine. Dremeled too much. potentiality suggests lining the cut portion of the chassis with superglue to add a bit of strength which I didn't try. Certainly can't hurt.

One thing that did help the traction rolling a lot was supergluing the outside edge of my foam tires. Not sure what the stock foam's hardness is, but from what I understand, harder foams = less traction rolling. The superglue just adds a little hardness to whatever foam you do it to.

TJF, what surface do you run on? That Rx needs to come down to lower your CG if possible. Maybe try shrink wrapping it to save some space.

thats funny.. my wife and I are moving out of our old apartment too and into a new one. *moving suxs* sorry had to say it.

Thanks for the heads up on modding the motor mount, I ll look to be more cautious with the dremeling.

I run my car on too surfaces ....one is very very large row of tennis courts perfect for gathering top speeds and drag lines, the other is an actual LHS RCP foam 40' long road track (this is where I do all my competitive racing....unfortunately only for MINI Z's.) a few days ago was the first I tried my DTM on any surface, I am looking to run it on the courts more often than a track.

I do have a 25' RCP in my basement, but this is used mainly when I want to race in the winter time, rainy days..etc.

I haven't run on any of these surfaces yet...just around the kitchen...because I want to finish the body before I really test drive and open the DTM up to performance runs.

I know your right, the Rx I have a way to high and the CG is going to be unstable....I plan on up grading to the smallest rx I can find. Also, I haven't set any of the electronics cables either to the chassis so it looks very disheveled in the pic I posted.

Thanks for the tips again, and especially supergluing the walls of the tires...that is a great idea. ONE thing that makes the handling of any car bad is the amount of tire track and angle of momentum the tires are at entering a corner or straight away. It really is real racing physics.

wow, I'm jealous that you have room for a 25' track in your basement, much less a 25' RCP track. I hear they're quite nice. Not sure how much bite they have compared to the ozite carpet I've been racing on at the local 1/10 track, but traction rolling might not be a problem with the things you can do to reduce it.

Since you seem to know what you're talking about, I was wondering if you could clear up this question. I've heard 2 accounts now about what kind of springs to use up front to reduce traction rolling. Most people say hard springs (along with hard foams) to reduce traction rolling, but last time at the track, a 1/12 racer said go as soft as possible to reduce it. I kind of think the former seems more correct, but figured I'd ask anyway.

I'm working on a custom aluminum upper deck (battery box is plain inconvenient for electric placement). I'm using some DRR kingpins as standoffs. Will also be making a battery hold down that will body clip to the upper deck at one point to make it easy to swap my saddle pack. Will keep you posted on results.

Also going to try to dremel out the motor mount to let me use a larger pinion with my TO Elite Mod motor.

I know this was not intended for me but...hard tires and hard springs both reduce traction. As a result, they will minimize traction rolling.

Awesome, thanks for the info. Ordered the hardest ABC foams, will try those out on wed. Running the stock springs, not sure how they compare to the "hard" and "soft" abc springs.

Ummm Cdog,
before you go hard springs and tires...I would STRONGLY reconsider!!

WHy?
Because if your running on Ozite carpeting or ANY carpeting the last thing you want is a hard spring set and tire set. Your car will flip and roll like no tomorrow.

NOW..

If you told me you where running on a different terrain like a foam track, or pavement...I would say HARD all the way around tires and suspension.

You may be in big trouble if use the hard setting on Ozite.

FYI, I have run on Ozite before....not with a DTM but with a Z...
I needed to lower the CG and go with the soft to med spring set and TRY med to hard tires.

Also, FYI..its not my basement, its my grandmothers..lol
She's letting my wife and I move in with her to help her around the house. She's 88.
Her basement is 45 ' wide and 20 ' long.

TJF, thats what the 1/12 racer told me. Why is ozite so different from other racing surfaces that it requires the exact opposite in tuning to reduce traction rolls?

Anyway, the superglue on the outside of the tires really helped reduce the traction roll on the ozite, and isn't that just simulating harder foams? If what you say is true shouldn't I have traction rolled more?

Thanks for the help btw. I'm still trying to learn about this stuff.

Hey, sorry if I steered you in the wrong direction Cdog. I have never run on ozite and am unfamiliar with it's traction characteristics.

Here's something to consider though. If going "hard" isn't reducing your traction rolls, maybe it really isn't just a traction problem. Perhaps you've hit the speed limit that you cars CG has set. As TJFB has said, he had to lower his CG to stop his car from flipping. Perhaps soft springs result in an overall lower CG while going through a turn by lowering the cars ride hieght. The added traction (resulting from the soft springs) would then have to be counterd by harder tires (TJFB suggests med or hard) or else a traction roll will agian result. Maybe soft springs/hard tires is the way to go.

Let us know if you figure this one out. I think your final set up will be pretty interesting.

redrider

I am not underestimating your knowledge with the physcis of these cars ( I hope you know that)

You are right about vehicular characteristics and what you should use.
But on ozite..its..a lil..(very little) different.

ALso, one thing I ve found out is when driving on hard tires and springs...the car tends to lose grip when corning causing MASSIVE irratating problems...believe me ( I was ready to give up 3 weeks of racing when I couldn't figure out the right setup.)

**The problems all hard setups MAY cause is a pushing of the front tires going around a corner. This causes the car to take a much wider (unwanted, understeer) turn around a hairpin.
Also if you have hards on the back it may cause your rear to slide around all over the place (you would look like a trout fishtailing around corners so much)

-** Note: That is if you are going high speeds and NOT going a proper speed.

You may want to try a combination of hard and med tires.

I know my Z I have (although a totally different monster than the DTM has a Hard front tires ...Med back tires.....soft front suspension and soft rear dampner spring and med roll shock springs.
The car ....is a monster ...sticks to its line like glue with no understeer, tailspin, or roll shock (unless you go into a turn full speed)

I hope this helps...again redrider... you are right about a cars physics. I apologize if I jumped in there without being more polite.

Hey no offense taken. I have found all too often that what I think should work doesn't (and with good reason). What you found to work on ozite seems to go against the general rule of thumb. I wasn't doubting your setup (sorry if I sounded that way), I was just trying to figure out why it works. That's why I'm interested to see what Cdog finds out. Believe me, I am in no way an expert and welcome any set up tips and suggestions.

definetely....I want to find out how it works for C dog.....what I find also, as a personal thought, is that it matters what type of driver you are also. Are you a cautious driver that stays within the limits of your cars ability when cornering and throttling? Or do you test the cars traction and physical ability at every hairpin?

You wouldn't believe this if I told you, but..

My good friend has such good drivers discipline that he can use his stock engined mini Z and BEAT many racers who have the X speed in the car and tons of hop ups.
He has such good driver awareness, and runs an extremely tight race line that he beats them at every corner and every hairpin.

In general though, your estimates are right on with a cars physics. Personally I hope Cdog can find the perfect setup that works for him.

One last thing I found is that their are different thickness of ozite carpeting out there.....I never really knew that..until the ozite track owner mentioned it to me...maybe I ran on a different thickness of ozite than Cdog does....

at any rate....I hope it works out.....I know it took me over 6 months to find the perfect setup on my track I race on.

P.S.....I am no master of this stuff either...just a really avid micro RCer.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I'll keep you all posted. As a side note, its tought to keep track of my tuning because so many things change between race days for me. Last week I broke my rear pod after a nasty hit (my fault). Problem was I had dremeled out the rear pod to accept the TO Elite Mod motor and it weakend the chassis at the screw point to the motor mount (one towards front of car). Luckily someone donated a spare chassis so I'm layed out all my electronics on it, but still need to dremel out space for the motor. Going to try the super glue trick that potentiality suggests and hope it strengthens it enough (that and avoid nasty hits). Aside from that I also switched over to using a custom aluminum upper deck (I'll post pics later). I'm pretty happy with it, even if it isn't the prettiest. We'll see how it runs. I also realized that the one foams I had tried the "superglue on outside tire" wall trick with was a bit torn and was ruined by the last race (along with my chassis :). Tonight I will be getting a new spur (40T) to try to coax a bit more speed, hard front foams and some other random parts.

As for driving style, I do try to ride the line and don't have much in the way of discipline. I'm getting better though, and still working on it. It's great racing with more experienced drivers like potentiality who is rapidly gaining on the lap times of the 1/10 drivers with his 1/18 m18 :P They run 11's and 12's and he runs an avg of 13.5 or so.

This also brings up the track, I'm not sure on the thickness of the ozite, but remember that its 1/10 scale, so understeer isn't nec. a bad thing (I have my dualrate set to 50-60% as it is, helps a lot).

Good to see some real activity and discussion on tiny again!

Cdog4w, not sure what your aluminum upper deck looks like but there's a pic what I'm running at http://www.tinyrc.com/forums/showthr...threadid=7114. It looks very similar to your plastic one.