Building a MAN 5T and 6x6 Pinzgauer
 

Hi there everyone,
I have been lurking around for a while (about a month or so) and no one really has been posting anything so i thought i would bring this forum back to life :)
Anyway i am going to be building a 1/87 rc truck. I have experience with radio control cars/trucks as i used to build Tamiya 1/10 kits and i was building a 6x6 trial truck last year but unfortunatly had to sell it due to work/school requirements but i have been interested in building something this small for a while now. I know these cost alot of money to make but i should be ok in buying the items i need.

Anyway lets get to the point, I have bought a 1/87 Man 5t and pinzgauer roco model as i wanted to do the man one first then a the pinzgauer to get some better exeperience in working with the small scale. Here are pics of the models
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...ylor/Man5T.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e.../Pinzgauer.jpg
And i have also bought some trailers in case i need some more room in the pinzgauer or future models -
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...r/Trailer1.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...r/Trailer2.jpg

I am going to be buying some brass so i can make the chassis my self and i am going to order some gears from microantriebe so i can make the rear axles myself.

The Man 5t is going to be my first one and i am going to do this 2wd as i have contacted peter from tttt-parts.org and he said that currently the front drive axle is sold out and they are currently producing one that will come out end of 2008 start of 2009. ( i dont suppose any one has a spare front drive axle from tttt-parts)

Also i am going to be buying the JST mini receiver and i have found some small 4.5g servos to use but could someone tell what speed controller i should use as i have looked at alot of them on ttttparts and microantriebe but i dont know which one to use. i aim to get a 4mm motor if that helps.

Also could someone explain what this does "HLBT light and blinker with one channel" - http://www shop kkpmo com/product_in...e-channel.html
And what lights does it control and how would i wire them up?

Thanks for all your help, I will keep updating this thread with my progress and once all the parts have arrived.
Marcus

Hi Marcus,
I think the MAN 5to is a good choice for begining tttt. The Prinzgauer should be the second project. It is a little bit difficult to power the two rear axles.

You dont need a front drive axle. 2wd is more robust and the circle of turning is better. Even this is very important for offroad driving.
A 4mm Motor is to small. I suggest you the 7mm motor. The 4mm Motor is good for a winch oder a 1:160 scale van.
If you looking for a good driveline just look an www 1zu87modellbau de. There is a new ready to build in 1:90 gear availible.
There is also a very cheap speedcontroler "ER100" availible. Just better than a servo circuit .
But you can also use any other speedcontroler in this size. The difference is mostly a build in brake and reverse-driving-light port, or a programmable characteristic.

The HLBT is a controler to switch driving lights, direction lights and two flashers. It comes with a manual (also to download at www 1zu87modellbau de ) that shows you how to wire up.

I hope my english writing is not to bad, if there are some additional questions just feel free to ask.

best regard

Thorsten

www mikromodell de

Very cool Marcus, thanks for sharing! :)

Hi there,
No prob tinyrc, i just want to bring this amazing forum back to life!!

Thanks to Thorsten, i have ordered all the electronics (just need a transmitter) and the gears and front axle but i havent got the brass material yet i need from lemo-solar as they only accept bank transfer as a payment method.

Thanks and i will post some pics when everything arrives,
Marcus

Hello Marcus,

thanks for your order.
i hope you receive the next days all parts.

People how make TTTT look better here www mikroantriebe.de

Is the biggest shop for small gears and a good shop for electronic

regards

Oliver

Thanks for your help Oliver. i would recommended him to everyone, he has been very good.
Thanks again,
Marcus

I have received a few parts.
The trailers from ebay -
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1199.jpg
I am still waiting for the MAN 5T and pinzgauer to come.
I have also got my parts from tttt-parts.org, a front axle, some M1 screws, washers, bolts and some springs for the suspension.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1201.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1203.jpg

I will let you know when i receive more items.
Thanks
Marcus

Well i have just received some more parts from mikroantriebe.de and they are of excellent quality and i would recommended him to all. Thanks Oliver!!
Here are the parts i got -
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1212.jpg

I also got some smd 0603 leds for the lighting kit to make the cars look even more realistic -
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1214.jpg

I am waiting for the vehicles to come and i am in the process of getting the materials i need.
Thanks and hope you enjoy,
Marcus

A real build thread after so long. I am enjoying this, please us keep updated on the build progress.

Thanks for your interest kalkurap.
I have just received the vehicles and some more electronic parts and i only need the materials now. I will post pics of the vehicles after.
Thanks
Marcus

Here are some pictures of the MAN 5T and pinzgauer.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1389.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1397.jpg

As you can see i have bought some wheels and tyres aswell due to the tyres on the models being plastic.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1399.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1392.jpg

I have started to cut the man trucks chassis to fit the rear gearbox casing and the servo in it aswell.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1402.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1403.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1404.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1405.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1406.jpg

I have done this as this truck is just going to be 2wd so i thought about making it without a brass frame and keeping the original plastic chassis makes it look more realistic.
The servo fits in quite nicely in the front cab and i just had to cut a few bits away to make it fit on the chassis.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1407.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1408.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1411.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1415.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1416.jpg

I am just waiting for the materials to fit the front axle and get the rear gearbox fixed together with the brass wheels.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...h_DSCN1418.jpg

This truck is going to have one of them lighting kits from microantrieb with front headlights, indicators, brake lights and a reversing light.
Thanks for your interest and if you have any questions or maybe you can help me with some suggestions then please tell me,
Marcus

Hi marcus,

great progress with your MAN so far!

I was building the same truck some time ago (click), and due to my experiences I would recommend a brass chassis. The center of gravity (right expression?) with the plastic chassis will be to high for good TTTT-characteristics. But as you have a fixed rear axle this might not be too serious. I have a swinging rear axle and in difficult terrain it dumps easily.

Which gear box have you got from mikroantriebe.de, 1:90? That's interesting for me because I want to start an TTTT MAN 630 with a fixed rear axle and I'am not yet sure about the transmission/transformation (?).

Jochen

Hi Jochen,
Thanks for the info, I have been looking at the http://78514.homepagemodules.de and translating a few bits. It is a very good website.
I will read your info about your MAN with great interest, thanks.
I am just going to see what it would be like with a fixed rear axle as this is my first truck so in the future i might make a brass chassis.

I will let you know how the gearbox works. This is the one i got - http://www.shop.kkpmo.com/product_in...out-motor.html

Just wondering if you have built any other TTTT's and do you have a course (parcourse) for the TTTT's as i am interested in making one.

When i receive the materials i will post some more updates.
Thanks again for your help Jochen,
Marcus

If you need some help with the translation let me know.

Unfortunately I have not so much time for this hobby, so there is no other truck yet. But these days I'm starting with an MAN 630.

making a parcours is a good decision because it's a bit boring to drive on the desktop on the long run. You can see my parcours here: click

Let me know if you have any questions!

Jochen

Hi Jochen,
Thanks for the info.
I have been using google to translate most of the info and i can understand quite a bit.

The MAN 630 sounds interesting, will you be making it 4wd or just rear wheel drive?

Your parcours loks very nice. What material did you use to make it out of?

Would it be possibly if you could take some pictures of the underside of your MAN and maybe the internals?

Thanks again for your help,
Marcus

It will be a 2wd. The 4wd trucks I have seen so far have a much bigger turn radius due to the missing differential. That would not fit to my narrow trails on the parcour. (and it's more expensive if you can't make it on your own)

In fact I want to build a Unimog at the same time with the MAN. One of them should get a special suspension for the front axle that I have seen on a trade fair this year at Thorsten's MAN 630 (who answered you earlier in this thread). It was fascinating, looking really realistic and working perfect but a bit hard to descibe in english :o
The other truck should get a swinging connecting arm between the swinging front and rear axle that should improve the trial capabilities. You can see this solution here on Harrys page
But so far these are only plans ... let's see what comes out at last ;)

The base panel is made of "Styrodur". In Germany you get it in building centers and it compares a bit to styrofoam, but it's stronger and not that crumbly. The "mountains" are made of styrofoam, paper-mâché on top and gypsum/cement at last.

I will take some pictures this evening and post them tomorrow ...

Jochen

Hi Jochen,

Thanks for the info. The unimog sounds very interesting and Thorsten's trucks look very good aswell.

Them trucks on harry's site do look good and will help me in building mine.

I think i am going to build my parcours out of styrofoam and paper-mache as these materials can easily be found in england.

I look forward to seeing those pictures of the MAN.

Thanks
Marcus

Hi Marcus,

I've taken some pictures from the bottom side. I used an epoxy chassis from Mikromodellbau.de and added the original details under that chassis. The front axle is from "Faller car system", the swinging rear axle is from Mikromodellbau.de. The on/off switch is hidden under the exhaust, the charging connector is on the opposite side (with the three holes).

... strange, I can attach only one pic to the posting ... have to make one Posting for each picture :confused:

EDIT: finally the upload worked :)

Hi Jochen,
Thanks for the info about your model.
So do you leave the battery in the model when charging it as i was wondering how to charge it up if everything was soldered together.

Also do you think that the servo i have placed in the MAN cab is a good idea?

I didnt know that about attaching pictures as i upload them to photobucket.com and just put insert the url on this page.

Do you know where Thorsten has gone as he used to post a bit on here but i dont think hes been back in a while?

Thanks for your help.
Marcus

Yes, the Lipo-cell is left in the model and it's charged via the plug on the bottom side. Have a look at Stefan's page and click on "Modellbau", then "Elektronik" and then "Schaltpläne" (in the horizontal menu). On this site you find a general connection scheme that also includes the on/off-switch and the wiring for the charging plug (the big one on the bottom).

I think my pics won't help you to much because I've just "slaughtered" the truck to find out about some nerving radiointerference.
From the front to the back: Servo cross the platform, then the battery, on top of the battery the reciever (now outside), motor and gearbox (almost invisible), behind the motor a connection bar for the backlights and upright to the left the cruise control and the light tiny to the right.

The position for the servo is perfect! The more weight on the front axle, the better! And you have more space for the other stuff on the loading platform.

I don't really know him, I've just met him once on the fair. But he's really one of the best experts in this field and always very helpful. I hope he doesn't mind if I tell you that you can find his E-Mail on this site mikromodell.de/ under "Kontakt".

Jochen

Hi jochen,
Thanks for the pics, they have helped me a bit.

I have just looked at the diagram about the switch and i have noticed that the + and - of one channel is connected to the servo and the speed controller, is this right? And would i have to wire the lightening kit like this or could i just wire the connections normally?

I have seen on the german micro model forum that you are having a problem with radio interference. There are some very good models on there aswell like that hummer and the firetrucks.

Ah i see so if i put more weight on the front axle then it would perform beter?

Yes thats where i got thorstens email from but he doesnt seem to answer to his emails. It doesnt matter though as you helped me alot
Thanks
Marcus

In fact, the best solution for minimal interference and a clearly wiring is to lead the + from the battery to an extra little board as well as the - (but the - via the switch like on Stefans plan). And from there on you wire all the other components. The reciever needs only one +/- connetion for the power supply (like Stefan shows), the other channels of it need just the impulse connection. It's the same wiring that I've chosen. You can see the little "power distribution board" right from the battery on the pic.

Yes, I gess it's the most active site for micro models in germany.

Exactly, because usually there is much more weight on the rear axle from all the stuff on the platform so the front becomes to light. I have put some small lead pieces under the driver cabin to get more weight to the front. From my experience a ratio of round about 1:3 (weight front vs. weight rear) should be the minimum.

I'm sure he is coming back here from time to time. But this board was pretty dead since a long time.

jochen

Ah i see so if it would be better if i used just one + and - point from the receiver to the servo, speed controller and lighting kit for the interference and also for the amount of wire that would be used.

Do you use FM technology for your MAN truck or is it infra red?
I am using the FM radio stuff as i am more used to it but i was wondering what is the difference between infra red and fm? As i have seen that sol-expert do a receiver, speed controller and lighting kit all in one which looks like it could save alot of space and wiring.

How exactly do you measure the weight of the front and rear of the truck to make sure i get the correct balance?

This board has been dead for a quite a while, i was hoping to bring it back to life but it looks like most members have left the hobby or lost interest in TTTT.

I might scrap the pinzgauer TTTT project for now as it is a very small model so i am going to buy a 6x6 MAN truck for my next project and i am going to make a brass frame for it. I may also make it all wheel drive but the front all wheel drive axle that peter from tttt-parts.org is making wont be out till next year.

Thanks for your help and i hope the materials come this weekend so i can get on with fixing it all together.

Marcus

I also use FM technology. The difference is that with IR there must always be a line of sight between sender and reciever, the range is smaller and you have max. 4 channels as far as I know. But the components are much smaller and it seems to be cheaper (the sender).

I use a usual kitchen scales and measure alternately both axles. It's important that both axels are standing flat in one level. But measuring is not so important, just try it out and you see how it works best.

If you have the MAN 5to running, I'm sure that you have enough experience to start the Pinzgauer. I suppose that this is almost easier than building a 6x6 with good driving characteristics because of the tricky double rear axle that should swing over two axis ...

Anyway good luck and keep us informed ...

jochen

Thanks for the info about the difference between the FM and IR, i think i will just stick to the FM for now as i have got all the electronics sorted out for the MAN.

I will have a go at measuring the weight of the truck when i have finished it. It sounds simple enough so it shouldnt be that hard.

I see what you mean about the pinzgauer being not that harder than the MAN but i will see how the MAN goes and think about my next project then.

Thanks again for your help,
Marcus

Hi Jochen

I was just wondering what you use to charge the lipo batteries?
I have got that LA-Uni charger from Mikroantriebe and i was wondering what DC voltage input you used to actually charge the lipo?

Marcus

hi marcus,

I' not absolutely sure, but I have the lipo charger from tttt-parts.prg and i think it's the same as the one from mikroantriebe. The input voltage is between 4,5 and 6V. once there was a data sheet with all the facts but I don't know where to find it anymore.

I have an old variable power supply an I use to set it to about 6V for the lipo charger.

Jochen

Hi Jochen,
Thanks for that i think i have a variable DC power supply that i might be able to use.

At the moment i am still waiting for the materials for the chassis to come but i might get started with soldering the smd leds and resistors to the light boards and connecting all the electronics together.

Do you know where i could get them mini connectors that are used for the charging socket?

Thanks for all your help,
Marcus

Hi Marcus,

you may be busy enough for the moment if you go for all the LEDs with their resistors, wiring and stuff ;)

I'm soldering the brass chassis for the MAN 630 and building a front axle these days.

I don't think that you have to order the connectors in Germany, they should be available in England too.

Anyway you get them at mikroantriebe (female and male), at mikromodellbau ("elektr. Bauteile" -> "Schalter/Stecker") or at conrad.de (article no. 738514 - 62 and no. 738468 - 62)

jochen

Hi Jochen,

Yeah i know the leds and resistors are quite small.

Are you building a driveable front axle or just a normal one and do you have a thread on how to make them?

I will have a look at some electronics stores in England to see what i can find. Thanks for the info about the websites.

Will you be doing a build up thread of your MAN 630?

Thanks
Marcus

No driveable axle, just a normal swinging one, made out of brass. No thread planned so far. I always forget to take pictures while I'm working on it ...:o
But maybe I take some this evening ...


Well, it depends on my forgetfulness concerning the pics ... I have just startet some days ago and I can't work regularly on it, so let's wait some more days and see if I can take some pics and make some progress :)

jochen

Ah ok that axle sounds good. I am not really doing much at the moment thats why i can take pictures but i agree it is quite forgetful when your concentrating on getting something done.

It would be good if you could post pics of the MAN 630, it doesnt have to be a build up thread but just info on how you are doing certain things in the build.

Thanks
Marcus

Ok marcus,

why not showing the progress of the project. It might become quiet boring, my last MAN 5to took me about a year to finish because it's just a hobby and I can't work on it continuously ...

So I will start a new thread with my MAN as this one is about yours. And we should'nt mix it to prevent confusion. Maybe we can bring this board back to life :)

jochen

Its good to see that you have made the build thread about your 630.
Your 5t took quite along time to build, hopefully mine wont take as long.

Do you have any other hobbies that you are interested in?

Marcus

Hi jochen.

I am just soldering the leds and resistors to the light panels i got from sol-expert and there is two different diagrams for the resistors. http://store.sol-expert-group.de/media/lbf.pdf and http://store.sol-expert-group.de/media/LUF.pdf
I have bought the LUF ones so should i use the LUF diagram?

Thanks
Marcus

Hi Marcus,

both drawings are more or less the same. The only difference in the diagrams is the two resistors for the headlights. The difference between 22 and 33 Ohm is rather small. If I would be you, I would solder two thin wires to one LED, one resistor to the end of the - wire, and check out the lightness/intensity (?) of the LED with your lipo/battery. It often depends on personal taste, some like it darker, some like it lighter.

Does that answer your question?

jochen

Hi Jochen,
Yes that is a very good explanation. thanks

Also i was just looking at my gearbox and i tried to solder 2 brass gears together with the solder i used for the resistors/leds and it didnt work so do i need to use some other type of solder?

Thanks
Marcus

I have never build a gearbox, so I' not sure how to do this, but I think I would rather glue them together to make sure that the gears are close together without any solder between them that could cause an unequal rotation or stick to the cogs of the gear (I'll eat my hat if you understand what I mean ...).

I'm using usual electronic solder that works fine for brass. Do you use soldering fluid or flux to prepare the surface? I think this is essential. It might also be a problem of your soldering iron ... if it has not enough power to heat up bigger surfaces than wires or resistors it doesn't work either. But that shouldn't be the problem with the small gears ...

Hope that helps.

jochen

I understand what you mean Jochen. I did try to solder th gears and like you said some solder did get in the teeth/cogs of the gears which would of caused it to not work properly so i have glued them together now.

I am using some soldering fluid but i think i might need to use a hotter more powerful soldering iron.

Would you be able to help me find some brass material as i still havent received any and its taking a bit too long as i really need some to crack on and get it built?

Thanks for your help,
Marcus