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View Full Version : New Article: Gertman's 4-cell Mod


tinyrc
08-25-2002, 05:02 PM
Check out this excellent write-up by Gertman of the 4-cell mod for the Epoch:

http://tinyrc.com/articles/epoch4cell/

FYI, we will be stocking assembled packs in the Shop shortly.

Please post any questions that you have about this mod to this thread.

MicroRCracer
08-28-2002, 05:10 PM
are the stock batteries on the the spec 2 nicad or nimh?? and what is the difference in the spec1 oand spec2 in battery wise?? do they both have the same batteries??

gertman
08-28-2002, 08:11 PM
As stated in the article, the stock batteries are NiMh. The Spec 1 and 2 use the exact same batteries. The difference is in the Spec1 you have to make room for the 4th cell. It's not a drop in mod. I have been told it can be done but I have not attempted it.

gertman
08-29-2002, 04:59 PM
This is the charge adapter I made for my Epoch's:

gertman
08-29-2002, 05:08 PM
Here is a close-up of the connector I use on my peak charger. It a uni-sex connector: no male or female. They are also referred to as sermos connectors and red and black connectors. I use them on all my 1:10 scale packs.

MicroRCracer
08-29-2002, 06:59 PM
is that plug for a 1/10 th scale peak charger..if so, how many amps do you charge at??

gertman
08-29-2002, 09:47 PM
MicroRCracer,

First of all there is no scale when it comes to charging :D :D. Yes, the peak charger I use for my Epoch batteries I also use for the batteries in my 10'th scales. I charge the batteries for my 1:10 scale cars at about 5.6 to 6.5 amps. For my Epoch, I charge at 1 amp or less!!! Usually around 0.6 or 0.7 amps.

tinyrc
08-30-2002, 12:22 AM
gertman, any idea if the Epoch plug is a standard size so that people can buy a new plug and keep their old charger intact?

gertman
08-30-2002, 02:53 AM
No but i'll try to look into it.

MicroRCracer
08-31-2002, 02:21 AM
Hello gertman,

what would happen if i added a bitcharg nicad battery(1.2v / 70mah)to be the 4th cell..can you mix nicad and nimh?? what are the pros and cons??

gertman
08-31-2002, 02:47 AM
MicroRCracer,

I don't mean to put a damper on your creativity or anything, but the simple answer is NO!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

The absolute rule when adding a cell to an already existing pack:
Try to use one as close to the originals as possible.
What is meant by that is the brand of the cell and mah. Everything else HAS to be match EXACTLY!!! This would be stuff like:

size of the cell-------ex. AAA, sub C, 1/3 AA
type of cell-----------ex. NiCd, NiMH
voltage---------------ex. 1.2, 1.5

So in answer to your last question, NO NO NO, please don't try mixing NiCd cells and NiMh's. They are totally different technologies which are NOT compatible at all!!! They have to be cared for and charged differently.

If this was done, doesn't matter which type was in the majority, the pack would NEVER work properly if it worked at all!!! Meaning, if you did manage to get it charged it would NOT last very long at all and with in 2 or 3 charges the pack would be totally dead if it hadn't yet exploded!!

IF I scared you I mean to!!!:D Please, please do NOT try this EVER in any situation RC or unrelated.

MicroRCracer
09-02-2002, 03:18 AM
HEY GERTMAN!!

I TRIED THE BITCHARG BATTERY ANYWAYS AS THE THIRD CELL FOR MY SPEC 1 SINCE I USED THE THIRD CELL FROM MY SPEC1 TO BE MY FOURTH CELL FOR MY SPEC 2..

I CAN ONLY TELL YOU THIS...THE NICAD CELL THATS MY THIRD CELL ON MY SPEC1 HAS ABOUT 10% MORE PUNCH THAN THE STOCK 3 CELL NIMH..I GUESS YOU CAN SAY THAT IM USING A NICAD CELL + 2 NIMH WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO CLASH OR TO BE A MIX MATCH, BUT IVE BEEN CHARGIN AND PLAYIN LIKE CRAZY AND IT KICKS BUT AND ALMOST KEEPS UP WITH MY 4 CELL NIMH SPEC2

OH YEAH!! MY SPEC1'S RUNTIME DIDNT REALLY DECREASE BY A LOT...BUT, MY 4 CELL SPEC2 RUNTIME DIDNT GET A LOT MORE RUNTIME AND SEEMS THAT THE SPEED INCREASED, BUT THE RUNTIME DECREASED OR MAYBE REMAINDED ALMOST THE SAME..IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE THE RUNTIME IS SHORTER EVENTHOUGH I PRESS THE BUTTON TWICE FOR EACH INTERVAL FOR THE SPEC2 CHARGER..

I THINK YOU SHOULD EXPERIMENT TOO AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK??


NEXT QUESTION..


WHAT ADAPTER CAN I USE FOR THE SPEC 2 CHARGER..RIGHT NOW IM USING ONE OF THOSE UNIVERSAL CHARGERS AND SWITCHED IT TO 9V MODE AND SO FAR IT WORKS GREAT.. THE ADAPTER GOES UP TO 12V BUT ITS SWITCHED ON TO 9V.. THE ADAPTER SAYS THE CURRENT IS 300MA .. IS THAT OK?? PLEASE LET ME KKNOW..THATS WHAT IVE BEEN USING FOR THE MEAN TIME WHEN I DONT HAVE ANY BATTERIES..

gertman
09-02-2002, 03:06 PM
I disapprove of mixing batteries like YOU DID AND THINK IT IS VERY STUPID AND RECKLESS!!!!! I suggest you be VERY careful when charging, since you are only using a timed charger, keep tabs on the temperature NiMH do not like heat!

YES, of course NiCd sells have more punch than NiMh's but less run time. I didn't realize you didn't know this.:rolleyes: O, please report back what becomes of this hybrid pack. Let's see what it does long-term.:p :p

The reason why you have not seen much improvement on run time of your 4-cells is because you have not cycled your pack to regulate the voltage..................this is why your hybrid pack STILL works!!! I believe you are not charging the batteries enough, which is good in your case:rolleyes:, this is why IT still works.

Let me give you a word of advice: when some one tells you specifically NOT to do something and you have the guile to go and do it anyway, don't come back and ask for advice about it!!!

O and one more thing, the next time you write a post in all caps I will NOT answer it!!!:mad: :mad:

MicroRCracer
09-02-2002, 06:51 PM
hey gert!! dont be mad gertmeister!! i think youre a cool dude!! i just was stubborn and wanted to try it out anyways so my spec1 would still be running and not out of comission since i took the nimh cell out of it and used it for my 4th cell on my spec2..you know...

i already knew that nicads offer more power and thats the second reason why i tried it out.

i just wanted to inform you that the operation went smooth and wasnt trying to disprove you..


anyways, youve been a big help and just wanted to thank you just i case i have'nt by now...:D :)

tinyrc
09-02-2002, 10:37 PM
MicroRCracer, if we were saying "don't take the tires off" or something like that, then it would be one thing, but this is more like "don't touch that hot stove or stick your finger in that socket" - you really should not mix these cells no matter what, even more so given the way that you are charging them. Please be very very careful, as you're likely to end up with a leaky or exploded cell on your hands (literally).

MicroRCracer
09-08-2002, 02:34 AM
when you use your peak charger, do you let the peak charger automatically shut off or do you monitor it as far as minutes or feel the bottom of the chassis??

by the way, what peak charger brand do you use???:)

gertman
09-08-2002, 09:48 AM
If you use a peak charger with variable amp setting there is no need to monitor your pack's temp. You should set the amperage no higher than 0.4 amps.

I use a Reedy Quasar Pro that also lets me set the number of cells in the pack that am going to charge. This is a very versitle charger that I mainly bought becuase I race 1:10th scales and need to chargers.

dumboi07
09-30-2002, 02:12 AM
QFM? Because i was gonna order a bunch anyways.

gertman
09-30-2002, 02:47 AM
Sorry,

I am unfamiliar with this "QFM". What exactly is this?

Namuna
09-30-2002, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by gertman
Sorry,

I am unfamiliar with this "QFM". What exactly is this?

QuestForMadness.com

dumboi07
10-01-2002, 01:15 AM
what he said... go there and look at buy parts. i guess you are not familiar with this site because i dont think you play with bits (Do you?) If you do, im sorry cuz i dont wanna make u mad like that other dood (no offense to the "other dood) (forgot his name)

gertman
10-01-2002, 01:35 PM
No don't worry you won't make me mad. The reason why I got made before was because the user was trying something that was VERY dangerous--mixing NiMh cells and NiCd's. Yes I do have a few Bit's but no I choose not to modify them, hence I had never heard of that site.

Anyway, I went there and it appears that their NiMh cell may be the wrong size. You need a 1/3 AAA I think theirs says itís a 1/2 AAA BUT it is very hard to tell from the picture. I would e-mail them and ask.

Sorry I don't know for sure.:(

tinyrc
10-02-2002, 12:17 AM
4-cell assembled pack:
http://tinyrc.com/shop/product.php?pid=156

Individual cells:
http://tinyrc.com/shop/product.php?pid=157

:)

e_lm_70
11-21-2002, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by gertman
The reason why I got made before was because the user was trying something that was VERY dangerous--mixing NiMh cells and NiCd's.

Mumble Mumble ...

Dangerous ...

Do you realy belive it is so dangerrous ???

Never seen a bettery explode in my life !

Mix NiCd with NiMh is stupid, when the bat are in serie, becouse if they both go out of power the NiCd must to be overcharged or the NiMh have to be undercharged, so or less fuel or less life ...

NiCd in Parallel with NiMh is more stupid (an maybe dangerous)

BTW the risk is only if a peak charge is in use , with the standard stupid timer charger from Epoch nothing can happen !

Other problem is that the Memory effect from the NiCd will effect the other 3 cell (as global performance)

e_lm_70

P.S: I have already 4 spare Tomy NiCd 1/3 AAA cell, I think I will build up a 4 cell pack. Unluckily change the bat in the epoch is a long procedure and involve soldering every time ... So need to thing if I want more power of more run time ... BTW I have 2 Epoch ... so maybe for have to little different car I think at the and I will run with two different type of pack !

PP.SS: Using my crappy saldator, and my bad hand, I have over heat 2 of the 4 1/3 AAA cell ... As result these two cells have increased the size (making more difficolt to build back the car)... Who know how much I have lost in preformance in my cell ??? Need to test if I can till reach 5.6V peak voltage after a full charge !

PPP.SSS: I had also to extend the 2/3 wires that connect to the pack since the original one were too short for a 4 cell mod !

PPPP.SSSS: I think I will also add a capacitor for give a little bit more punch on a start kick !

Draconious
12-25-2005, 06:17 AM
Sigh.. thank god ppl cant fit lipo and nimh in the same car LOL...