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View Full Version : 4.5v Zipzap Dragster!!!


wild03
11-24-2002, 03:50 AM
Ok! I got tired of waiting for the F&F kit and since I had 3 1.5v batteries left over from my lap timer project I said What the heck!
I'll go for the zipzaps land speed record!!!

Read all about my Zip Dragster at my site!!! Yet another CHEAP project!

Cheap Top Fuel Pro Stock zip Dragster! (http://www.geocities.com/wdiaz03/minidragster.html)

enjoy :D

sessiz10
11-24-2002, 01:28 PM
That is a great mod !!!
I will have to try that soon.

wild03
11-24-2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by wild03
Ok! I got tired of waiting for the F&F kit and since I had 3 1.5v batteries left over from my lap timer project I said What the heck!
I'll go for the zipzaps land speed record!!!

Read all about my Zip Dragster at my site!!! Yet another CHEAP project!

Cheap Top Fuel Pro Stock zip Dragster! (http://www.geocities.com/wdiaz03/minidragster.html)

enjoy :D

Damn YOu do get what you pay for, My site is locked because it exceeded the data transfer limit....What does one has to do to find some GOOD free service in this life! :(

Stridex
11-24-2002, 10:36 PM
Dude, once again another reason I love this board. I've been waiting forever for this mod on the other boards. Finally started spending my time over here and wouldn't you know it....all questions have been answered thanks to you. You da MAN!!!! I'll show pics of mine when I'm done. Very NICE MOD!!!!

ejaf
11-24-2002, 11:11 PM
Kudos!!! Awesome job!

Now...are you going to be able to recharge those babies, or will the money you make blowing everyone's doors off pay for the fuel? :D

wild03
11-25-2002, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by ejaf
Kudos!!! Awesome job!

Now...are you going to be able to recharge those babies, or will the money you make blowing everyone's doors off pay for the fuel? :D

:D
Thanks guys, :( sadly these are throw away NOS bottles, no recharging unless you guys come out with a rechargable battery pack! ;) I did work last night on making the battery pack easily swapable from the circuit, SO if someone can find rechargables this size they can be easible removed and pluged back in.

I used IC socket pins to attack it to the circut I'll have pictures SOON!

john
11-25-2002, 11:22 AM
Very nice, sir. Very nice indeed. So, does the stock battery las tlonger on a charge since it isn't pushing the car anymore?

wild03
11-25-2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by john
Very nice, sir. Very nice indeed. So, does the stock battery las tlonger on a charge since it isn't pushing the car anymore?

In theory yes, the car battery will only have to worry about the constant 100ohm resistor load and about turning the wheels. Again, let me caution you guys on running this over a long period of time, the pager motor is probably rated to handle 1.5v and we are really pushing it to its limits at 4.5v, hell I'm surprised my has lasted this long! This should only be done as a last resort to prove ones manhood on the track..... :(

I know that the extra speed and power could be intoxicating and could cloud ones judgment but we are all professionals here...right...we can control ourselves.....
;)

Stridex
11-25-2002, 05:52 PM
You've brought up a good point. Does this configuration work with another regular zip battery? I'm not interested in the 4.5v. I just want to get the battery current going directly to the motor. That in it's self is a HUGE boost.

I've had a similar configuration sitting for a few weeks now. Just the mod without the reverse though. How I've managed to charge the second batt is solder a female connect that fits my old rc plane charger. Charges in seconds and runs for atleast 20 minutes. If you have old ac charges for your old regular RC's, take the connectors off the old batteries they use to charge and solder them on your mini rc' batts. Since most were made to charge the larger batteries, you'll have to be careful with charge times. Only leave them on for under a minute. Slowly increase the times if your run times aren't long enough.

Gro Harlem
11-25-2002, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by wild03
Damn YOu do get what you pay for, My site is locked because it exceeded the data transfer limit....What does one has to do to find some GOOD free service in this life! :(

Heh, well shrinking file sizes down is the best way to get the most out of these free sites. I hate geocities, but tripod isn't bad.


BTW: that car is insane!! i bet if you turn the slightest it will flip over 5x with that crazy engine/batt setup :eek:

wild03
11-25-2002, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Stridex
You've brought up a good point. Does this configuration work with another regular zip battery? I'm not interested in the 4.5v. I just want to get the battery current going directly to the motor. That in it's self is a HUGE boost.


I don't see why not, the transistor is just a switch. You can try this yourself without the car. you can use a regular AAA, AA or any 1.5v source to trigger the transistor, and the motor should turn! In fact I encourage you guys to try the circuit outside the car first using this method, I usually hook an LED and corresponding resistor. I had no luck with the voltmeter because the damn thing reads voltage regarles of the transistor being on or off. Most be some inner working of transistor or what not the LEDs or motor will not tun but the volmeter picks up voltage....I'm not an EE so I can't tell you why this happens. just that it drove me nutz for a while until I noticed all my transistors were behaving this way! :rolleyes:

BTW: that car is insane!! i bet if you turn the slightest it will flip over 5x with that crazy engine/batt setup

:D I try not to turn much, I did hit an uneven tile on the floor and the thing jumped from the ground flipped forwands landed upsidedown and flipped a few times....

Azimov
11-26-2002, 07:33 AM
This is VERY nice and very simple too. I have added your schematic to my files and plan to do this myself as a way of running more power around the PCB to the motor. Now, if you only had an old playstation 1. They have a very tiny motor inside that would take the juice from your setup and are so efficient as to be insane. They are slightly bigger than the usual motors used in these cars, so some chasis modding would be needed. But, it would more than triple run times and torque.

Namuna
11-26-2002, 08:06 AM
A worthy addition...

PT Bruiser
11-26-2002, 10:48 AM
[i]Originally posted by Azimov
Now, if you only had an old playstation 1. They have a very tiny motor inside that would take the juice from your setup and are so efficient as to be insane. They are slightly bigger than the usual motors used in these cars, so some chasis modding would be needed. But, it would more than triple run times and torque. [/B]

Ok, forgive my (ignorance?), but why in heck is there a motor in a Playstation? Was it responsible for spinning the CD-ROM? If so, couldn't you get one from any old disc drive? Just kinda lost here....but triple torque sounds good.

wild03
11-26-2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by PT Bruiser
Ok, forgive my (ignorance?), but why in heck is there a motor in a Playstation? Was it responsible for spinning the CD-ROM? If so, couldn't you get one from any old disc drive? Just kinda lost here....but triple torque sounds good.

Maybe he's talking about those vibrating controllers!!! :D
Anyways, now we can look at faster or high torque motors and not worry if we have the juice to power them.

wild03
11-26-2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Gro Harlem
Heh, well shrinking file sizes down is the best way to get the most out of these free sites. I hate geocities, but tripod isn't bad.


Thanks for the tip,

tripod backup site (http://wdiaz03.tripod.com/minidragster.html)

I hope to update with latest pictures soon!

Azimov
11-26-2002, 03:12 PM
No, it is a motor used to align the laser head inside the Playstation that reads the disk. The motor that spins the disk is very similar to the type found in portable Walkman type casette players. They're large, about the diameter of a quarter and a half inch thick. The laser positioning motor is roughly twice fatter than the original Bit/Zip motors, same length, but has two flat (trunkated) sides. They look very similar to the motor used by that smart fellow that made the Bit powered airplane. These little motors are some of the most efficient I have seen to date. The average motor in these micros (and this is an average example as all the different varieties have different specs. This is how a 1.0 is so much slower than a 2.6 running on the same load for example) has a rating around 1.5VDC @ 80-100mA. The motor out of the Playstation is rated around 1.5VDC @ 10-30mA.
Yes, more efficient motors would make quite a difference in how these micro cars perform. They can be compared to athletes that use their stored energy in the most efficient way possible. Allowing them to run longer and faster with the same fuel supply.
Here's how I discovered these little jewels are so powerful. I once built a solar powered slot car. I powered it with a pager motor because they are much more efficient than the sguare motors that come with the cars. When the solar engine fired, the car would scoot along for about 10 ft or so until the capacitor bank was depleted. I then replaced the motor with one from the playstation. It now scoots for a good 50-100 ft on the same charge at several times the original speed! I don't know exactly as I don't have a straight stretch long enough to let the thing go all at once. This was accomplished at a rating of 3VDC@ 18mA supplied from the capacitor bank. At the V/I rating supplied by the PCB in these little cars, this motor would literally scream down the track. I keep eyeballing that slot car and wondering if I should take that motor out and put it in a zip, but I don't want to destroy it. I might just put a pager motor back in there and have a go anyways.

wild03
11-26-2002, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by wild03
Thanks for the tip,

tripod backup site (http://wdiaz03.tripod.com/minidragster.html)

I hope to update with latest pictures soon!


More pictures available of a cleaner circuit! ;)

This new site should have Data transfer to spare! "I hope"



backup tripod site (http://wdiaz03.tripod.com/minidragster.html)

RebellionInc
11-29-2002, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by wild03
Ok! I got tired of waiting for the F&F kit and since I had 3 1.5v batteries left over from my lap timer project I said What the heck!
I'll go for the zipzaps land speed record!!!

Read all about my Zip Dragster at my site!!! Yet another CHEAP project!

Cheap Top Fuel Pro Stock zip Dragster! (http://www.geocities.com/wdiaz03/minidragster.html)

enjoy :D

Hi, i'm kinda new to all this electric stuff so please bear with me. i was wondering if you could show or explain how to do the mod where one batt send power to motor and one to pcb. you help would be much appreciated. please help meee!:confused:

wild03
11-29-2002, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by RebellionInc
Hi, i'm kinda new to all this electric stuff so please bear with me. i was wondering if you could show or explain how to do the mod where one batt send power to motor and one to pcb. you help would be much appreciated. please help meee!:confused:

Everything is pretty much on the site, please read it, and I'll be glad to answer specific questions, Keep in mind that if you can't follow the instructions maybe this mod is not for you, This mod assumes you have soldering skills and some knowledge in electronics.

Good luck!

wild03
11-30-2002, 01:49 PM
This is your ZIPZAP on steroids!!!

http://wdiaz03.tripod.com/crazyidea2.jpg


....Any questions?

ulookin2
11-30-2002, 01:52 PM
Where could I find some of those little plugs/connectors that you used for the battery? Those are the perfect size for the micro rc cars, and they are easily unplugged, and changed. I have been searching everywhere for those and can't find any. Any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

wild03
12-01-2002, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by ulookin2
Where could I find some of those little plugs/connectors that you used for the battery? Those are the perfect size for the micro rc cars, and they are easily unplugged, and changed. I have been searching everywhere for those and can't find any. Any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Those come from IC sockets, you can see them on these picture.

http://www.geocities.com/wdiaz03/ICsocket.jpg

you might have to copy and paste the link! but that's where they come from those sockets are fairly common and CHEAP!!! you'll have to cut into the plastic first to get them out without damaging them.

wild03
12-07-2002, 11:08 PM
Ok I finally had some time to set the LapTimer in one of the rooms, the most distance I could find was 12 feet, the rest of the house has carpet and ceramic tiles...SO I had to set it up in one of the rooms :(
Oh well better than nothing. The 4.5v Dragster took 2.11 seconds to do the 12 feet track. Not bad. These took a lot of trials :) the steering needs to be pefectly aligned because at those speeds turning is not easy. so the car has to go as strait as possible. I can't imagine having to run 20 feet...Geee!!!

I still believe that ZZs have a poor tire design compared to Bits, the rubber on the ZZs is not even so when you mount the tires and spin them they are offcentered. Bits are much better at this. my Bit runs much more strait.

I used the wifes makeup mirrors to setup the track so as soon as I get more mirrors I will take measurements at 3, 6, 9 and 12 feet with one pass, that way I can compare speed between the 3 feet segments.

Azimov
12-08-2002, 06:43 AM
I still believe that ZZs have a poor tire design compared to Bits, the rubber on the ZZs is not even so when you mount the tires and spin them they are offcentered. Bits are much better at this. my Bit runs much more strait.
Yup, I noticed this too. But only on one of my cars and only the left front wheel. No matter which hubcap or tire I use, it is lopsided. Obviously a manufacturing error.

dustn
02-20-2003, 02:35 PM
So is there no way to use an H-bridge to boost amperage to the motor while still using one battery instead of one for the pcb and one for the motor? The h-bridge would retain reverse. Thanks.

dougal
02-20-2003, 03:05 PM
I've got an old pager somewhere. One of these days I'm going to have to find that sucker and tear it down ;)

fuzzy2cell
02-20-2003, 04:57 PM
I don't think you've got the land speed record just yet.:rolleyes: I have a 6 V BATTERY!!!!!! in scale mph, it goes 580!
Top that!

wild03
02-20-2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by dustn
So is there no way to use an H-bridge to boost amperage to the motor while still using one battery instead of one for the pcb and one for the motor? The h-bridge would retain reverse. Thanks.

Hmmm! I have all the parts for a simple H-bridge I don't see why you couldn't use the same battery, I don't know if it will actually help but in theory the same battery could feed both the Board and the H-bridge in one side and the direct path to the motor on the other, I'll have to try it.
I'll be using 2 2n2222 and 2 2n2907 for this setup! and hopefully get REVERSE back!

wild03
02-20-2003, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy2cell
I don't think you've got the land speed record just yet.:rolleyes: I have a 6 V BATTERY!!!!!! in scale mph, it goes 580!
Top that!

Nive try, but I just took the little 12v battery from my car remote! BEAT that! :D

fuzzy2cell
02-21-2003, 07:31 AM
damn!:eek: Wouldn't a 12v blow the circuit board or something?:confused:

wild03
02-21-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by fuzzy2cell
damn!:eek: Wouldn't a 12v blow the circuit board or something?:confused:

Oh I'm sure! :) But Im bypassing the board anyways, Is the motor that worries me!

fuzzy2cell
02-21-2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by wild03
Oh I'm sure! :) But Im bypassing the board anyways, Is the motor that worries me! LOL!! ;) :D

johnrtse
02-21-2003, 11:04 PM
This H-bridge concept has me intrigued. I am building a multi-cell Dragster right now and was planning to do the std. transistor mod, but had some reservations about having the weight of an extra cell in there just to power the pcb (this thing will be plenty heavy enough!).

I'll be watching this post closely, wild!


John

Project RC
02-22-2003, 12:29 AM
http://www.geocities.com/wdiaz03/layout.jpg

I did exact thing as the diagram describes, but it doesn't work. How do I test it? I don't want to blow my pcb. What is the best way to test the set up without soldering it to the pcb? Help. :confused:

wild03
02-23-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by Project RC
http://www.geocities.com/wdiaz03/layout.jpg

I did exact thing as the diagram describes, but it doesn't work. How do I test it? I don't want to blow my pcb. What is the best way to test the set up without soldering it to the pcb? Help. :confused:

I would double check all the connections make sure your transistor is in the correct position. Download the specs by doing a search on "2N2222A" also those that have a metal cap, like the one I used, the cap is actually connected to one of the legs(collector) pin so make sure you don't touch the cap to any of the circuit.

The easiest way to test is to use a 1.5v battery (AA AAA etc.) instead of the PCB. By connecting the battery where the PBC would connect the motor should turn.

Oh I noticed than the colors an the diagram could be a little misleading, the 4.5v battery (+) is connected to the motor and (-) is connected to the transistor and to the negative on the PCB

I recommend testing the circuit this way before putting it on the car.

wild03
02-23-2003, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by johnrtse
This H-bridge concept has me intrigued. I am building a multi-cell Dragster right now and was planning to do the std. transistor mod, but had some reservations about having the weight of an extra cell in there just to power the pcb (this thing will be plenty heavy enough!).

I'll be watching this post closely, wild!


John

Well, I finally got to do some rough testing and the good news is that the H-bridge actually switches back and forth, the bad news is that the thing is SO inefficient that it doesn't work.

I used a simple 4 transistor H-bridge, a pair of 2n2222a NPN and a pair of 2n2907a PNP. check this page for details.

http://library.solarbotics.net/circuits/driver_4varHbridge.html

I didn't use inverters or buffers on the input so my bridge is what they call the "Bolt Light" check this page for some data on it

http://library.solarbotics.net/circuits/driver_4varH_test.html

I used a 1.5v pager motor for the tests. and Power supply Vcc set to 1.506v

Vcc = input voltage
Vnl = Voltage "No Load" (no motor)
Vm = Voltage across motor
Im = Amps at motor.

First I took some measurements with just the motor connected to the power supply.
Vnl = Vcc = 1.506v
Vm = 1.488v
Im = 42mA

Second I used the simple transistor switch from my page, with a 1k resistor at the base. again Vcc = 1.506v and I used a 1.5v AA for the input signal.
Vnl = 1.487v
Vm = 1.28v
Im = 51mA

Third the "Bolt Light" H-bridge Vcc = 1.506v
Vnl = .7v
Vm = .038v
Im = 5.8mA

needless to say that with this numbers the motor didn't move. inverting the input signals did invert the Vnl voltage from +.7v to -.7v so the H-bridge was at least switching. Invreasing Vcc didn't have an effect on Vnl. I don't know why this is so, I'll have to leave it to the experts.


:(

Project RC
02-27-2003, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by wild03
I would double check all the connections make sure your transistor is in the correct position. Download the specs by doing a search on "2N2222A" also those that have a metal cap, like the one I used, the cap is actually connected to one of the legs(collector) pin so make sure you don't touch the cap to any of the circuit.

The easiest way to test is to use a 1.5v battery (AA AAA etc.) instead of the PCB. By connecting the battery where the PBC would connect the motor should turn.

Oh I noticed than the colors an the diagram could be a little misleading, the 4.5v battery (+) is connected to the motor and (-) is connected to the transistor and to the negative on the PCB

I recommend testing the circuit this way before putting it on the car.

I got mine working now, just some soldering point problem, I redo to soldering, now they work. :cool:

CRUMB
02-27-2003, 10:20 PM
two words .....thats......sick!.....:eek:

bdebde
04-06-2003, 05:30 PM
Here is a link to an h-bridge:

H-bridge (http://www.universalhost.de/html_bit/mosfet_h-bridge.htm)

It has most in german, some in english, a translator will help. I have not tried this yet, but their results look good.

charliebrown
05-10-2003, 12:21 PM
Ok what it I just put the 3 LR44 's instead of the Nimh nattery and put in a high racing motor, will I still be fast?

wild03
05-12-2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by charliebrown
Ok what it I just put the 3 LR44 's instead of the Nimh nattery and put in a high racing motor, will I still be fast?

Nah! Yu'll probably smoke the board!! ;)

charliebrown
05-23-2003, 09:02 PM
Well, that is why my screenname is charlie brown....I always come up with the lamest ideas...and ugh thinks HE's stupid, look at me!!! :(

charliebrown
06-30-2003, 03:23 AM
That is one confusing mod. Can you show easier steps on how to do that nitrous system thingy???

charliebrown
07-29-2003, 10:21 PM
I am VERY insulted.....is there a reason no one has replied to this thread in over a MONTH??? DON'T TEST MY PATIENCE!!!! lol ok maybe I was a li'l bit too angry sorry :D :D :D

wild03
08-05-2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by charliebrown
I am VERY insulted.....is there a reason no one has replied to this thread in over a MONTH??? DON'T TEST MY PATIENCE!!!! lol ok maybe I was a li'l bit too angry sorry :D :D :D

Sorry! I've been super busy lately, :)
Sorry about the step by step, But if you can't follow the website This mod might not be for you, If you have specific questions I'll be glad to help! Good luck!

charliebrown
08-05-2003, 06:11 PM
I think I understand it, if you send a negative battery curent to the endbell of the ZZ motor and the positve to the shaft, then it spins foward, right? NOW i understand......I gotta install that on my car, and race people for pinks LMAO

dabigpig
08-05-2003, 07:18 PM
hey did u use a NPN or a PNP transistor for? i'm thinking NPN am i right?

http://members.shaw.ca/dabigpig/layout.jpg

wild03
08-06-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by dabigpig
hey did u use a NPN or a PNP transistor for? i'm thinking NPN am i right?

http://members.shaw.ca/dabigpig/layout.jpg

I believe you are right NPN sound right, You can do a search on "2n2222 +pdf" on google and check the datasheet, my plug in is not working so I couldn't verify this!

Notice that the positive of the 4.5 battery pack goes to the motor. and the negative on the motor does to the collector (c) pin on the transistor.
I keep forgetting to label and use the right colors!

charliebrown
08-06-2003, 01:31 PM
Uhh, I took a 12 volt camera battery and tried to put it on my Zip. the wheels spin like Crazy, WOW! Oh well, If I used the NX motor and that 12 volt, along with KIT gears, VROOM.:o

ph2t
08-11-2003, 01:22 AM
[Namuna edit: nasty comments removed]

Yugo DSC Maxxer
09-17-2003, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by wild03
Damn YOu do get what you pay for, My site is locked because it exceeded the data transfer limit....What does one has to do to find some GOOD free service in this life! :(
Want good free service?
Go to www.freeservers.com and get their free pakage...
I use it all the time.

wild03
09-17-2003, 03:09 PM
Thanks for the info Maxxer ;)

Yugo DSC Maxxer
09-17-2003, 09:38 PM
No problem!

cheesehead
01-21-2004, 07:15 PM
The CD rom motors are usually brushless, so no bannanas. You would need a brushless controler, and those are @#$@# expensive.
I personally would try a Didel coreless motor or a N20(smallrc.com, I love their site. Propo RX's for bitchargers, batteries....all the goodies). Although about 7 bucks each, the N20's are designed to handle more current than the coreless, which would still be an improvement over the standard motors. I might use a off-brand N20, though, as they are dirt cheap and common as heck.
The idea with the transistors is a good one, but I intend to just shell out the 13.50 USD for a FET mod. The performance should increase even more, and the efficiency should go up about 20% instead of dropping.
I would go with 1 or 2l Li-Po's if I were going to make a drag-cart. Each Li-Po delivers a full 3.7 volts, which is plenty with a FET mod. Moreover, they have a shade higher mah-to-weight ratio, so a 210 Li-Po (at 3.7 volts) is about 1.5 grams heavier than a 150 NiMh (only 1.2 volts.
Of course...a .010 engine might work in one of these....but it would go so fast you could'nt control it!