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binaryterror
10-07-2002, 12:51 PM
I have the turbo motor in my Bit and the thing really flies...i wonder if the turbo is as fast in the ZZ's as my Bit

Namuna
10-07-2002, 12:55 PM
Nope.

The Bit PCB sends more current (actually, more than TWICE as much) to the Motor vs. a ZipZap.

The Turbo will still give the ZZ a nice boost in speed, just don't expect to see the kind of results like from the Bit.

payaso
10-07-2002, 12:56 PM
Not without serious surgury... (PCB swap)

silla

payaso
10-07-2002, 12:58 PM
Damn Namuna.... I can never beat you..LOL

silla

binaryterror
10-07-2002, 01:15 PM
I'd like to know of anyone wanting to place a good Bit PCB in a ZZ? The ZZ's look far more out of proportion, and are extremely slower (my friends stock ZZ was slower than my stock Microsizer) but many of the parts kind of interchange...Iwonder who really makes the ZZ's...maybe Tomy?

Plus i just seen the Microsizers here in my area, but the bottom of the chassis states Tomy 2001 i think, maybe its Hobbico 2001.

GryphicRacing
10-07-2002, 01:24 PM
Yeah, I was totally bummed when I found this out. I tried putting the MS 2.6 motor in my ZZ and it was dog slow. I now wonder if Radio Shack will come up with anything faster than the yellow NOS motor.

Namuna
10-07-2002, 01:31 PM
I'd like to know of anyone wanting to place a good Bit PCB in a ZZ?
Look around, it's already be done...With GOOD results.

Iwonder who really makes the ZZ's...maybe Tomy?
No, a Chinese company named Ka Wah makes em.

Plus i just seen the Microsizers here in my area, but the bottom of the chassis states Tomy 2001 i think, maybe its Hobbico 2001.
MicroSizers is MADE by Tomy, but LICENSED to be sold in the US by Hobbico.

gpile
10-07-2002, 07:53 PM
I have looked at the ZZ PCB with a scope. You are correct that there is a voltage booster on the PCB, however this DOES NOT in any way power the motor. Rather is is used to bias the pin used to turn on and off the MOSFETS that run the motor.

The reason the ZZ is slower compared to other cars is that the MOSFETS making up the speed controller have a high "ON RESISTANCE".The ways around this are:

1) add another battery making the voltage drop across the speed conroller less of an issue.

2) change the MOSFET's or add more to reduce the resistance of the speed controller.

3) This is a BIG maybe.....the on resistance of the speed controller is somewhat dependant on the voltage driving the gates of the mosfets. Playing with some resistor/capacitor values to increase the gate voltage MAY provide some improvements. Being an Engineer, If I were designing this I would be driving the MOSFETS gates with the maximum voltage possible. I doubt there are any gains to be made here.

4) Remove reverse. Tying the yellow wire to the red wire does this and provides a small boost in performance with the sacrifice of reverse.

As a side note: I really doubt that the bit delivers 2x the voltage to the motor. I havent seen one and cant say for sure....i'd like to see a voltage reading of the battery voltage and motor voltage to prove this.

ax0n
10-07-2002, 08:26 PM
I charged a friend's microsizer on my ZZ charger and then immediately read his motor amps. 172milliamps. then I charged my ZZ up, and I got 106. Both put out about 1.22 volts to the motor.

gpile
10-07-2002, 08:51 PM
Ohms law Resistance = Voltage / amps, in this case the total resistance of wires, motor, speed control, etc

1.22 volts @ 106ma = 11.51 ohms (1.22/.106=11.51)
1.22 volts @ 172ms = 7.09 ohms (1.22/.172=7.09)

Difference is 4.4 ohms that seems like a BIG difference to me....were you using the same motor for both tests? Was the gearing the same? Was the load the same (ie spinning tires in the air)?

Another (better) way to run this test:

1) make sure both cars are identical drive train wise (motor, gears, fresh charge)
2) measure the battery voltage with tires spinning
3) measure motor voltage with tires spinning
4) measure current with tires spinning
5) the speed controller resistance is calculated with the formula:

(Battery voltage - Motor voltage)/motor current = ESC Resistance

for example: Battery Voltage = 1.22, Motor Voltage = 1.12, Motor amps 170ma (or .170 amps) gets you .588 ohms

binaryterror
10-07-2002, 09:09 PM
But i still want to know why someone would place a Bit PCB in a ZZ...I think about $35 for a Bit, and $19.99 for a ZZ...just to put the Bit PCB in the ZZ to make it faster?

I might be wrong...but maybe they sell the PCB's somewhere, because i can not understand why people want a ZZ then place the superior PCB in it....

SlackerZ
10-08-2002, 01:21 AM
I barely can follow some of the treminology being tossed around on this thread so please help. MOSFET = Metal-Oxide-Semiconductor-Field-Effect-Transistor
I have access to a huge supply of various kinds of transistors and parts but I really don't have all the know how to use them. For instance can a TIP 102 or 122 be used in the proposed mod...or is a MOSFET completely different and I'm just making a fool of my self? Are the MOSFETs being described the four transistors in a row on the underside of the PCB? My diodes/transistors/caps/ect... can be attained easily but the actual zip zaps are hard to come buy and not worth $20 if I'm going to destroy it. Although I have no O scope I've got a great Pace desoldering station and can probably do the procedure if it is well described.

ax0n
10-08-2002, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by gpile
....were you using the same motor for both tests? Was the gearing the same? Was the load the same (ie spinning tires in the air)?


The voltage and amperage were read by completely removing the motor and just testing the amps/volts at the contact points on both cars. I charged them both on the same charger. The test was essentially done under no load.

Namuna
10-08-2002, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by ax0n
I charged a friend's microsizer on my ZZ charger and then immediately read his motor amps. 172milliamps. then I charged my ZZ up, and I got 106. Both put out about 1.22 volts to the motor.

Interesting numbers, quite different from mine:
http://tinyrc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1501

On my Bit:
With NiMH: 1.36v @ 275mA (4.94 ohms)
With NiCD: 1.34v @ 250mA (5.36 ohms)

On my ZipZap:
1.30v @ 77mA/115mA (11.30 ohms)

- You can read more details on the link above.

prooney
10-09-2002, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by binaryterror
But i still want to know why someone would place a Bit PCB in a ZZ...I think about $35 for a Bit, and $19.99 for a ZZ...just to put the Bit PCB in the ZZ to make it faster?

I might be wrong...but maybe they sell the PCB's somewhere, because i can not understand why people want a ZZ then place the superior PCB in it....

binaryterror,

Your right I don't think many people will spend $35 bucks just to strip a few parts to mod a $20 car. However, I think many of the people here have a spare parts bin made up of tired, high mileage, damaged, abused, forgotten or project cars gone bad.